Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby CBenson » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:22 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:In my (limited) experience with Waze, I've found that the only real asset to mapping parking lots is either when a parking lot's exit isn't obvious from all places in the parking lot, as seen in the parking lot here, or if there is a very large parking lot with multiple exits to multiple different roads, Waze can guide you to the most optimal exit based on your route from the parking lot, as seen in the mall parking lot here.

I would agree that these are the types of parking lots that we are addressing here. Although, the proposal does not adversely affect the single parking lot road for the convenience store or fast food parking lot.

PhantomSoul wrote:Beyond that, however, parking lot routes have very little use, as once you turn off the public road into a parking lot, you have to visually find your destination and just drive to it, since the entire parking lot, no matter how big, is typically defined as a single address, and the navigator will take you to the same spot no matter which store in that parking lot you might be looking for.

This is not true at all in my area. The stores have different addresses. And as WeeeZer said if you search for the store name, Bing will frequently return different locations for different stores using the same parking lot. However, the results seem fairly random, as sometime the Bing coordinates may be on the main road, sometimes in the middle of parking lot, sometimes on the actual building (and these results may be different for different stores in same shopping center).

I also find parking lot roads to be useful for getting a good route when exiting the lot. The advantage to starting your trip on a parking lot road, is that waze will then always route you in the fastest direction on the main road. If the parking lot road is not in waze and you start driving in the lot in the direction opposite to the direction waze would naturally route you and you are close enough to be snapped to the main road, then waze will start you on the main road in the direction you are traveling in the lot. This can sometimes result in a much longer route.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby WeeeZer14 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:06 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:Beyond that, however, parking lot routes have very little use, as once you turn off the public road into a parking lot, you have to visually find your destination and just drive to it, since the entire parking lot, no matter how big, is typically defined as a single address, and the navigator will take you to the same spot no matter which store in that parking lot you might be looking for.

I agree with what you have said except a note about this part I quoted. That is true if you are searching for an address, but if you are searching by the name of a store it is possible that the search provider has returned a location right at the front door of the store.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby PhantomSoul » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:01 pm

Parking lots are kind of difficult to navigate using GPS systems, since most of their collector roadways are unnamed. Further, because navigation is dependent on the location accuracy of a wide range of hardware devices with varying levels of accuracy that are beyond the programmer's control, IMHO any kind of turn instruction that based strictly on a distance of less than a tenth of a mile (about 500 ft) is irrelevant and more likely to confuse the driver than provide any kind of productive information. More often than not, the driver really has to navigate the parking lot visually based on what he/she sees across the parking lot, whether it is a specific store that is the destination, or finding these collector roadways within the parking to exit.

In my (limited) experience with Waze, I've found that the only real asset to mapping parking lots is either when a parking lot's exit isn't obvious from all places in the parking lot, as seen in the parking lot here, or if there is a very large parking lot with multiple exits to multiple different roads, Waze can guide you to the most optimal exit based on your route from the parking lot, as seen in the mall parking lot here.

Beyond that, however, parking lot routes have very little use, as once you turn off the public road into a parking lot, you have to visually find your destination and just drive to it, since the entire parking lot, no matter how big, is typically defined as a single address, and the navigator will take you to the same spot no matter which store in that parking lot you might be looking for.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby thefatveganchef » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:53 pm

With Waze going to or at least playing with the idea of showing multiple directions when they are close together I can see it playing out on screen as:
Turn left in x feet
Then turn right at x feet
Then turn right at Waze Ave

That kind of thing will be helpful especially in larger malls / shopping areas.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:56 pm

My over-all suggestion for all cases:

1.) Next segment is named and the first word is NOT "to" - use "at"
2.) Next segment is named and the first work IS "to" - use "to"
3.) Next segment is un-named - use "to"

Case one is for most basic intersections.

Case two is mainly for ramps. I have a ramp signed in real life with a "to I-40" sign. This ramp leads to the last bit of another highway (which is not mentioned on any signs at that point) that splits to join each direction of I-40. I bugs me because you are in no way turing "at" I-40 and I use that ramp almost every time I leave my home.

Case 3 covers the parking lot situation as well as things like at-grade connectors where you are in effect turning BEFORE you reach the road and not AT it.

It may be the case where only the US is using "to" in ramp names, but these rules should then still apply to other locales I think.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby Scruffy151 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:08 am

I think using "to" or "towards" instead of "at" would be much simpler to implement and work as well as this proposal.

No special conditions are needed, those words work as well on complex ramps as they do in parking lots.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:22 pm

CBenson wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:1) The current/previous segment is a parking lot segment
and 2) The next segment is a parking lot segment
and 3) The next segment is unnamed

Ok, but if you have requirement 3), why do you need requirement 1)?

Ummm...
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby Daknife » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:42 pm

Hmm and here I was thinking about making up names for every lane and maybe every parking stall for the local Mall. :lol:

Actually I like the Idea Alan, perhaps it might even reduce the inclination of some editors to pave every lane of a Mall because it didn't tell them to turn at the third lane in order to park closest to the food court.
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby CBenson » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:41 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:My proposal could also be amended, but would require good parking lot creation discipline, to deal with named lot roads, as I've seen those too. How about:

1) The current/previous segment is a parking lot segment
and 2) The next segment is a parking lot segment
and 3) The next segment is unnamed

Ok, but if you have requirement 3), why do you need requirement 1)?
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Re: Query: not using "next named street" in parking lots?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:22 pm

CBenson wrote:A second thought is that I kind of like the instructions in the parking lot as they usually let me know what exit waze is heading to even though the instruction don't really make sense.

Your proposal is also something I've considered and could support as well. "turn right to" or "turn right towards" are both better language than the current "turn right at" instructions.

My proposal could also be amended, but would require good parking lot creation discipline, to deal with named lot roads, as I've seen those too. How about:

1) The current/previous segment is a parking lot segment
and 2) The next segment is a parking lot segment
and 3) The next segment is unnamed
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