Roundabout flags disapearing

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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:57 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
davipt wrote:I've found another broken one I haven't yet fixed (in terms of segment position and junctions), but unfortunately have updated the name of the whole avenue three days ago roundabout livemap route

That certainly doesn't look like a real roundabout.


We have a lot of those oval and weird ones over here. So I need to create a round one and then pull it oval manually, dot by dot. One thing I've noticed is that after a update the number of dots decrease a lot and it becomes like this one, not as round as initially, but so far after one year had never noticed a roundabout stoping being one.

Any advice on how to do oval ones that are not horizontal or vertical?
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:11 pm

Continuing on this subject, I really think I'm doing something quite wrong or the server is doing something quite wrong, and either way I'm having a bad feeling that roundabouts sucks big time.

Not only I've discovered some roundabouts that stopped being flagged as one, as I'm now discovering a lot other roundabouts that kind of have the directions inverted. What I mean is that when one creates a new roundabout, the edit pane shows "one way ->" and "level 0". The roundabouts in question are still showing the arrows correctly, counter-clockwise, but the edit pane shows nothing, and if I manually select the "one way ->", some of the segments become clockwise. Some of those roundabouts, like the ones that lost the roundabout flat, have been locked for several months, so I really wonder how can we lock a roundabout in such a way that it never ever become screwed again besides redrawing new roundabouts (thousands) every other week.

Please help, any information or opinion could help, this is becoming really frustrating. We have too many roundabouts in Portugal. I think the politicians receive bonus for each new roundabout they build ;)
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:30 pm

crazycomputingdotnet wrote:On those roundabouts, I am not seeing the center node. Are you deleting them?


What is a center node? Never saw one
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:41 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
davipt wrote:
crazycomputingdotnet wrote:On those roundabouts, I am not seeing the center node. Are you deleting them?


What is a center node? Never saw one

You could only see them in Cartouche, so I do not believe this is the case, here. There is a node, invisible in WME, at the center of a roundabout which actually defines the center and the roundabout object itself. If it gets deleted, then the roads cease to be a roundabout, and they go back to normal segments.


I think I recall something like that on cartouche_old, yes, but never on WME and would never delete it on purpose.

From the day I found the broken roundabouts until now I had a feeling that it could be caused by different levels confusing the system, but I've now seen some roundabout with all segments correctly at 0 but still with some segments "kind of inverted". The level stuff I just saw somewhere on the wiki and noticed recently - sometimes I do change a segment from one point to a point more on the side, in an attempt to straighten up the entries and exits to get the "straight ahead/turn left/turn right" instead of "take the nth exit", as most roundabouts are just straight crosses with a roundabout in the middle, and after moving the segment I go and "bridge" the two segments around the old junction so all segments are complete, but that operation bumps the level to 1. So now I'm trying to go back again to all the roundabouts I've been trying to fix on the last week and trying to ensure they are all level 0, fully locked, fully q-w arrow enabled, and that's when I noticed the inverted segments. So now I need to go again to all roundabouts, recreate them all, take notes of all, wait for a mapdate, and if any of them gets screwed again, I'll be forced to just give up and live with the broken instructions...
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:42 pm

crazycomputingdotnet wrote:There is a roundabout I looked at before replying in WME. At certain zoom levels you can see it.


didn't understand this sorry :(
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:29 am

crazycomputingdotnet wrote:If you zoom in and out sometimes you can see the center node


it was hard to find out that roundabout, but yes I can also see the small center blue cross ableit there is nothing I can do with it. But I can't see anything like that on the intl server.

PS: there is a weird segment on the right side, and a lot of soft turns

Screen Shot 2012-10-30 at 12.35.18 AM copy.jpg
Screen Shot 2012-10-30 at 12.35.18 AM copy.jpg (53.17 KiB) Viewed 312 times
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:53 am

crazycomputingdotnet wrote:Thanks. Odd that there are soft turns when that is not a basemapped roundabout.


If one creates the roundabout without manually qw'ing each node, it will be soft-turn by default.


Then there's the case I'm mentioning, where I do get the soft and u-turns and inverted directions after some months, even with the locks. ;)


And don't forget the street below the primary at the right side!
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:32 am

crazycomputingdotnet wrote:Yup, first thing I got. My sloppy editing in old I suppose.

I wonder if it is related to an issue we stumbled upon where roads were changing direction. There is a 2 mile segment near my house that I am the only one I drive on, and I only drive on it one way. I made it a 2 way way back in march, and it has since changed to a one way, switched it back and same. This happened three times. I have gone ahead and killed the entire stretch and rebuilt it, and am testing to see if it does it again. So far it hasn't, however every few days or so when I drive on it I get the pac man.


Getting the pacman back I think it's ok, the pacman will be there until there's enough people passing by. We have a segment where even with three different guys it always reverts back to pacman as nobody else probably passes by and as it's a tight road (parallel parking both sides) the average is low.

But if you manually change from one-way to two-way the system should *never* switch it back to one-way. If it were one-way and people would drive mostly the other way, it would be ok to switch to two ways or even to the opposite way, but two-way back to one-way seems to be wrong, and fortunately never saw that happening on "my roads".

From what I'm seeing on two-segment-parallel freeways with one-way each way and locked and still with average speed values for forward and reverse, maybe it could be the same case for you: do you have any parallel street to that one that cars could pass on the opposite direction, and more often than you, and then the backend would decide between one guy one way and a lot of guys the other way and reverse it?

I'd suggest making it two-way, enabling all relevant turns at the edges, and locking it out. Not that it's helping on my roundabouts, but worth the try.
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:44 pm

davipt wrote:Continuing on this subject, I really think I'm doing something quite wrong (...)

(...)I'm now discovering a lot other roundabouts that kind of have the directions inverted. What I mean is that when one creates a new roundabout, the edit pane shows "one way ->" and "level 0". The roundabouts in question are still showing the arrows correctly, counter-clockwise, but the edit pane shows nothing, and if I manually select the "one way ->", some of the segments become clockwise.


Damn damn damn it was really my fault and is something probably documented somewhere.

It basically goes like this:
- create two separate segments, connected to each other, like A----BA----B
- select both and click on bridge
- if you picked the left one first and then the right one, you'll get A------B
- if you picked the right one first and then the left one, you'll get B------A <-- the inverted ones!

So what happened on the roundabouts is that I'd be picking the front segment first, then the previous one, and then bridge them, and get the new segment inverted. This way, because if I'd pick the previous segment first, the green arrow would be covering the next segment.

Gotta be more careful with this.
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Re: Roundabout flags disapearing

Postby davipt » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:15 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Why are you bridging segments of a roundabout?


Either the basemap or some newbie users are creating the roundabouts with the Y/triangle split at enter/exit, and these are just creating problems because unless they are locked, one of those segments will eventually turn two-way and then the instructions will become "keep right and then at the roundabout something", or will tell to exit at the wrong exit number.

So I delete the two Y segments connected to the roundabout, then join together the three segments of the roundabout, then reconnect the main segment to the right point in the middle of the roundabout.

Issue one was bridging those segments at the wrong order and no longer getting the whole roundabout A-->B. But that may not be a problem for the routing, just ugly.

The second issue is that the bridging increases the level, and it may happen that a roundabout with different levels per segment may confuse the routing and give wrong instructions.
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