Service Roads

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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:30 pm

Here is an example of what it looks like in Hoboken via street view

Now to check to see how they are set on the map...
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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:14 pm

Only thing I have every heard or read is that service roads are the same as a regular street to the routing server.

Yes I believe some are using service roads for alleys. I am not sure if that is a conflict with the definition I am working with or not. I think it would work okay. Do you have any thoughts either way?

I'd tend to think that parking lot road may be better -- only go there if your destination is on that segment. It will also suppress traffic reports. Not many people will care that there is slow traffic on a back alley somewhere.

Of course I have been known to use narrow cobble stone alleys in Hoboken NJ for blocks and blocks to bypass the regular roads. But I would NEVER recommend that route to someone else with out a ton of disclaimers.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:51 pm

I created a new topic to discuss Primary Streets so we can keep focused on Service Roads here.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:36 pm

mapcat wrote:It definitely needs to have a higher rank than Street (otherwise, what's the point, other than to make them stand out in the client?). But besides that, my general feeling is that primary streets and a minor highways fulfill the same roles, only one has a highway number (US or state) and the other one doesn't (or it's a county highway). Rare exceptions apply, of course.


What is the point, well it may be that the original intent was display only. Just like my thought for Service Roads. Priority is part of what we are trying to hash out in the discussion of NJ road types. Right now I am thinking that primary street should be a tier below Minor Highway. It is something that is important/high volume, but calling it a highway would be very generous.

I guess this touches on some of the difference between a highway (a physical structure) and a route (a logical designation). Sometimes they play nice together, other times they bash heads.

mapcat wrote:
WeeeZer14 wrote:... my "rule" that any ramp should terminate on at least a Primary Street as well. (Except for say rest areas or ramps to a private/secured campus.

Good rule. Ought to be the standard.


One standard down, only a million to go! :lol:

And damn, I try to make topics to focus on one area and they all branch out on tangents. We are all complex thinkers!
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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:05 pm

mapcat wrote:I agree with all four of your examples. BUT: Even though the urban frontage roads in Texas, Oklahoma, and a few other states are major roads in and of themselves, worthy of being called primary street due to their heavy use, should they be considered as part of the "primary road" type selected for long-distance routing? Assuming that primary streets fall under "primary road"; at the meeting it seemed that Waze isn't quite sure they do.


If Primary Street is modified to be given higher priority than Street, I would hope that it is still less than the priority given to Minor Highway or above. But we don't know how granular their priorities can be.

mapcat wrote:I also wonder if there's a strict need for a special "service road" category, if they truly are treated like regular streets (and I don't have any reason to think that they aren't).


Maybe not. Based on how the Service Roads are rendered on the Live Map (not at all except for name), I assume the original intent was to reduce clutter at certain zoom levels. No need to show these frontage roads since it follows the main road, so just show the main road to users until they would actually need the frontage road. But the client doesn't seem to hide them like the live map does.

mapcat wrote:Once you have these sorted out, do you think you'll have the stamina to establish the final verdict on major/minor highways?


Maybe. :lol:

MReiser4670 wrote:The reason I had even asked about how Waze treats Service Roads in routing is this particular little segment of road in my neighborhood: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... s=63831524

Good example to look at. I could argue Private, Parking Lot, and Service Road if I tried :)

If we use Service Road, maybe restricting the right turn from the little segment to Oklahoma would be enough? Of course I am sure people would violate it and throw up errors and some well meaning person would enable the turn again. Sigh.

This is where my thought of more turn options would be nice - allowed, restricted, not preferred. We could then set the turns through that segment as not preferred.

Any chance average speeds would eventually make the shortcut less appetizing?

MReiser4670 wrote:Also, here is an example where I agreed with your thinking on when a frontage road is NOT a Service Road: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=4&lat ... 2,41768702

Woodhaven Rd (PA 63) is a limited access freeway with highly-traveled frontage roads in both directions. Their primary purpose are as connections to on & off ramps for the highway so I gave them the Primary Road designation.


And this fits into my "rule" that any ramp should terminate on at least a Primary Street as well. (Except for say rest areas or ramps to a private/secured campus.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:07 pm

All I have ever seen stated is that Service Road is treated the same as a regular Street. Thus the need to treat them differently if they are indeed meant to carry significant volumes of traffic as opposed to just providing access to driveways an entrances.

By the way, I should have mentioned I was approaching this from the US view. I am not sure how things would work in other countries. If there are already some good standards elsewhere, please share :)
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Service Roads

Postby WeeeZer14 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:25 pm

I'd like to nail down a clear definition of Service Roads to update the wiki with.

My definition is:

A service road connects to or parallels a high-volume road and provides access to businesses and residences which themselves do not have direct access to that high-volume road. Those businesses and residences have addresses on the high-volume road and therefore the service road has the same name as the high-volume road.

The high-volume road may have a continuous frontage road or the high-volume road may have been re-aligned leaving segments of the old alignment in place to serve local businesses and residences.

In the frontage road case, if the road is designed to carry significant volumes of traffic in addition to providing access to local addresses, a classification other than service road may be appropriate.

Some examples of Service Roads:
Old alignment - S. Illinois Ave, Oak Ridge, TN

Frontage road - Van Wyck Expressway, Queens, NY

Old alignment - McCarter Hwy, Newark, NJ

Some examples of NOT service roads:
Frontage is high volume also - North Freeway (I-45), Houston, TX

Discussion? Agreement? Disagreement? Caveats? More examples?
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Re: Service Roads

Postby txemt » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:35 am

I found a service road I was talking about!!!

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=48894570
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Re: Service Roads

Postby txemt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:42 pm

andrewfatcat wrote:In texas I use frontage rd if no other name is given because most of time you see frontage rd is used in some of the highway exits.


Good point, but have you seen the signs the city puts up that says "I-xx Service Road"? The exit sign may say "frontage", but the city decides to call it "service."
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Re: Service Roads

Postby txemt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:29 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:In situations where a highway has inner express lanes and an outer local roadway with all the exits and turns, I've used ramps to represent the outer roadway, as seen on State Rte 18 here. They seem to carry just enough of a penalty to prevent Waze from routing over the local segements unless it actually wants you to exit off them, but also won't route you away from those exits just because you need to traverse a whole bunch of "ramps" to get to it.

Of course, these local segments also don't have any driveways, be it residences or businesses. Personally, I think it would look a little silly for ramps to have addresses, and I'm not sure how that would even affect Waze's routing to those addresses.

Have we reached any kind of consensus on this?


That's not quite what we're talking about. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... 2,46960608 is more of what we're talking about.
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