Hope some people in India noticed. I'm trying to increase Indian Wazers since today morning and got three.
Hope tomorrow is better..

Chris -> MB526 -> Tapatalk 2

Spazinbc wrote:I can see them becoming Waze's Achilles heel.

I beg to differ. Installed it from Play Store and was shocked to see it running google maps. Waze Map of Chennai is the most up to date today. And no points? Any incentives? Didn't see any!

Chris -> MB526 -> Tapatalk 2

Hi, all.

Whether it is 'idle rumour' or not, I don't like the idea of Apple buying Waze, and agree with many of the points that people have made.

I see an 'up-side'.

The Waze v2.x code was based on GPL (open-source) code, and suddenly when it went to version 3.x, the source was closed (and all GPL code removed). See the forum topic here:

http://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 61#p150861

The rest of this post is not meant to annoy the Waze developers, it is a natural discussion/ development around open-source code. Please do not be offended.

The potential up-side of Apple (or anyone else) buying the application, is that like many other open-source projects (eg Staroffice > OpenOffice (Oracle buy-out) > LibreOffice), the original code can be forked [0] and this will enable the application to continue, and potentially become even better than it is now.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28s ... lopment%29

OpenWaze/ FreeWaze, anyone? Probably a different name, as 'Waze' is undoubtedly 'owned'. Suggestions? All this needs is a webpage, so that the project can be coordinated (Launchpad/ Sourceforge), some volunteers, a mailing list and then we can work out what code we can use. How easy/ difficult would it be to use OpenStreetMap [1] data, instead?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap

Just a thought; if anyone is interested, this would need discussion outside of this thread.

Chris.

Hi, bgodette.

Thanks for your reply. When starting to think about a project, it is useful to be realistic, but sometimes, this can border on pesimism.

Many projects start without a complete solution in place, and things have to be made-up as they go along. As the open-source community has demonstrated on many occasions, amazing things can be achieved if people are motivated. OpenStreetMap is a great example of this, and the underlying ethos is documented well in Eric Raymond's 'The Cathedral and the Bazaar', a text that you are probably familiar with.

On a fork such as this, the most important thing is getting together a list of what needs to be done, and then finding people who are keen to see progress made. Getting a mailing list started can be very easy, and as mentioned before, Launchpad or Sourceforge can be used to coordinate things.

If anyone was interested in a fork, it would be better to have tried and to have failed, rather than not tried at all.

I won't take-up anymore time on this thread, as this will go off at a tangent, from the original subject, which is poor etiquette.

Thanks again for your comments, though.

Cheers,

Chris.

I'm not happy at all to read about those rumors.

Not just do I dislike Apple for various reasons, but I also dislike Waze supposedly trying to get $750m instead of "only" $500m, especially since the maps were created by us users.

If Waze sells for $750m and has 30m users, that's $25 per user. I guess at least $15-$20 average per user for the maps and statistical data alone, the client itself probably isn't worth all that much.

Actually I always wondered when Waze is going to sell our work for millions and millions of bucks. Once that happens, maybe we should try and get someone to start a similar project based on existing and open source maps...

gettingthere wrote: It's apx. 30 million Waze accounts. This number is not active users. Waze has kept a very tight lid on the number of active users.

There already is at least one alternative - OpenStreetMap - http://www.openstreetmap.org/
There are some Apps available now that use this data. Here is an example: http://www.skobbler.com/

Well, then every active user created even more value on average.

Yeah, but that app isn't comparable to Waze. Also, to be honest, I think it's not even that good at what it's supposed to do.

OldGnome wrote: "Updated" for the most part, not "created." "Improved," yes. "Created," no.

Any individual who has been participating in moving Waze forward (who is not part of the paid staff of Waze) has been here as a volunteer. You knew that when you signed on to do whatever you have been doing. You cannot retroactively go back and complain that "I won't get compensated for my work."

Weren't the basic maps free? As far as I know, they were.

Of course I can complain if Waze is about to sell out that data. Just because I always knew that Waze has the right on the maps etc. doesn't mean I am obligated to applaud this data being sold.
I'd also complain if Zuckerberg sold Facebook (and cancel my account), for example.

Not to mention that as an Android user I wouldn't be willing to tolerate any disadvantages if a possible buyer would be Apple.

OldGnome wrote: So what? You still haven't "created" anything.

Oh yes, of course. Value. The maps were free and therefore worthless before the community here (and for small parts the staff) contributed to them.
Also the statistical data was crated by each driver running Waze, adding more value.

OldGnome wrote: There is quite a distance between complaining and applauding. The point you seem to be missing is that the data is Waze's to do with as they see fit. Knowingly participating in that process may not prevent you from getting your feathers ruffled, but you really don't have much say in the matter.

So? I'm not asking to get paid, and I'm not saying that Waze is about to do something they aren't legally allowed to do.

If you think ignoring your user base is a great way to run a company, that's your opinion.

OldGnome wrote: I hate to tell you this....remember a little IPO about mid-2012? Facebook is publicly traded.

I hate to tell you this... but there is a huge difference here in my opinion.
I wouldn't mind being able to get Waze stocks at all, I might actually like that (at some point, not for the unrealistic amounts of money Waze seems to think they are worth).

OldGnome wrote: "Tolerate?" Please. You can use or not use whatever you wish. You seem to want to scare Waze into doing something you disagree with. Use or not use. There isn't a third option.

Ignoring user base. Not very smart. If Waze loses a lot of users like me, who are in the top 2% or so of users, they might end up the MySpace of social navigation.

Poopstick wrote:Investors are indeed the real threat. You can't refuse a return on investment which represents your investment 10 folds.

Maybe, but at least we could become part of that threat ourselves.

Poopstick wrote: As for what apple could do with Waze: what they want is traffic data and maybe a pair of navigation algorithms. They don't give a damn about the community and the road layer. Waze's maps are probably not something which could be merged easily with Apple's, especially with all the imperfections.

Doesn't Waze already sell traffic data, without selling their whole company?
What Apple would eventually do is speculation, all I know is that I don't trust that company and their policies and hordes of lawyers at all. They like having things exclusively on their platform, but if Waze lost many or all Android users, the traffic data is going to be rather bad.

OldGnome wrote: "Free" certainly does not equal worthless. However, you still haven't "created" anything. You used that term and I insist that was incorrect.

Yes, from an economic point of view free maps without license restrictions are worthless.
I'm not native in English, but I'm still pretty sure "value" is "created". But feel free to educate me.

OldGnome wrote: I never said that.

Yes, of course you did. Also you continue to do so.

OldGnome wrote: Hang on a second. You mentioned Facebook and what you would do when Zuckerberg sold it. I am only reminding you that he already DID that.

If you don't see any difference here, I can't help you.

OldGnome wrote: I have seen darn few folks in the forums pop off about a weak rumor the way you have. I have seen in the past on forums for other free software, the same kind of threat -- "If you don't give me what I want, I will take my ball and bat and go home." I don't think Waze (or anyone) responds much well to those kinds of threats and I get annoyed when people think that threatening to leave is a useful negotiating tactic.

It's up to Waze how they respond to anything and what they do. I'm just saying what I would do if I'm no longer satisfied. Just in case Waze is run by people like you, who think user "don't have a say" or how you put it. Which is funny, because now you say we should "negotiate". No idea how that goes together for you.

petervdveen wrote:Well.. Just give every wazer a dollar for every edit and I'm okey with it

Waze contrubutions are measured in points, not # of edits. Maybe half of $750m should be divided by the total number of points... how much would that be per point?

Is the total # of points known?

Poopstick wrote: I see investors as a threat since for the last 30 years investors are only looking for a quick ROI rather than pushing a project to its end.

What if the fouders of Waze themselves are now having a similar plan?

Poopstick wrote: They screwed up the western world by moving factories to China. Now China is knocking at the door with Made BY China stuff.

If consumers were willing to pay as much for products as you in France are willing to pay for high quality food, the people who started this would have gone bankrupt.
On the other hand, outsourcing enabled people in China etc. to be better off, and now being able to buy our German cars, which then enables us to bail out half of Europe, haha.

OldGnome wrote: Sorry, I'm not playing this game any more.

No problem, bro. It's not like talking to you is going anywhere for me, either. Obviously there are people here who actually know basic economic principles.