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This off-and-on isn't difficult at all

Post by skbun
Hey, all.

Any thoughts on how to prevent the off-and-on you'll see in this livemap link? There's no crossover or tie I can think of that will reasonably do it.

To be honest, I'm not even certain it should be disallowed. There's often a big backup on I-5 N around this curve, and although convoluted, it does get around it, often, and since it's hitting at least one city street, it's technically not 'just' an off-and-on.

http://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=12&la ... g=54301579
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https://www.waze.com/wiki/images/2/2a/W ... 00k_5c.png

AM in SW Shasta, NW Tehama, Central Trinity Counties, CA; Mt Rainier Nat'l Park, WA

Post by skbun
khaytsus wrote:I might try one of those navigation emulation things and see what happens, since live routing never seems to give the same route to the client as on the website.
Hey there! :) Thanks for taking a look and fixing!

You are definitely right about the livemap, and client getting different results. At a minimum, the query on Livemap is limited to two results, and the client can get up to three.

By the way, are you aware of the 'set as start point' feature on the Waze client? I wasn't, and just found out about it in some other random thread a few days ago. Touch-hold on your start segment, click the > arrow, and on the information screen you get, click 'More ->'. One of the options is 'set as start point'. I've found that EXTREMELY useful for this kind of real world troubleshooting.

That, combined with clicking the turn instruction at the top once navigation begins will tell you all the instructions you'll get on the route, start to finish. Unless I actually need the TTS instructions spoken, this is usually enough for me.

If there ARE navigation emulation tools, can you point me to one? (PM is fine if need be.) I could use one in rare instances on complex intersections.
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Post by skbun
CBenson wrote: I'm surprised drivers coming from I-5 N get any instruction at all there. I would have thought that continuing on the ramp type segments would make that route the best continuation and you wouldn't get an instruction.
Misspoke that. Right distance on the split, but should be 'no instruction on that particular route' straight.

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AM in SW Shasta, NW Tehama, Central Trinity Counties, CA; Mt Rainier Nat'l Park, WA

Post by skbun
CBenson wrote:I'm curious about the advantages of this configuration? Why the parking lot segment rather than the turn restriction?
Yeah, it IS intentional - both the design and the presence of the parking lot road, and there are definitely advantages to this over the turn restriction. A lot of this comes from experience, and I typically create these on cloverleafs, or 'freeways with off and on slip roads'.

With this bowtie crossover...
* The two parallel roads are so close together, at the 2m zoom, that on a client, it just looks like 'one slip road'. Completely transparent to a client user.
* The only nav advice Waze will ever give a person coming from I-5 N is to take the left ramp of the two, and in the context of this exit, it's 'straight ahead'. (I'll have to show a maps.google.com link to explain, but I've driven it. See http://goo.gl/maps/IFqjs ). The placement of the bowtie is right in front of the actual road split so the TTS shows the right distance. The parking lot road is there to assure that there is not an off-and-on nav suggestion (going back to I-5), but if someone DOES do it, it won't generate a UR either.
* A person coming from S 38th St will get two options, with the correct TTS: either 'stay to the left, to SR-16...', or 'stay to the right, to I-5 N / I-705 N...', thus the careful placing of the fork and the angles.
* If we do this 'the other way' with a single segment and turn restriction: when enough clever drivers do an off-and-on on one of these slip roads, I've seen from experience that inexperienced editors will go to such a junction with a UR, see 'Restricted turn might be allowed', and invariably will allow the turn - meaning 'allow the off and on' - because it's in theory possible, and we're back to an off and on issue again, so it goes in circles.

When I do THIS with a ramp, especially if locked down, this is generally the end of it. Everything works properly, and we don't get turn allow URs, 'incorrect junction' errors because of bad TTS instructions, or circular edits. I did one of these on a cloverleaf on I-405 in August as a testbed, and never saw a UR generated by problems with the bowtie.

(Apologies for how long it took to get back to you all! I hadn't subscribed the topic, so I just plain missed replies after the initial couple.)
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https://www.waze.com/wiki/images/2/2a/W ... 00k_5c.png

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Post by skbun
khaytsus wrote:If it's a real problem, you could work here:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-122.4 ... s=54304608

And make sure that this ONLY connects where it's supposed to, and of course make sure other roads work as well. I did this in Louisville on one section that persistently had users going off onto a side ramp and then back onto the interstate. I made it so the ramps ONLY went where they were supposed to, and not back to the interstate, with a bit of extra connection ramps and a parallel path or so.

Here's how I did it there, maybe a similar approach will work for you. Be careful, and trace the paths to make sure you get it right! :)

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-85.72 ... s=69318623
Oyyyye. Well. I think it's a done deal. Feel free to check my work if you're curious! I had to do two close-in bowties on the slip roads, two long lengths of parallel road, and found a place where the Interstate itself had a turn restriction. FUN! :D (And it only took about an hour and a half!) It's locked down at (3), has no turn restrictions, and should look fairly transparent to a client user - while preventing off and ons with parking lot segments.

I can't really prevent the going all the way down I-705 and back again (the cyan route shown earlier) if Waze REALLY decides that's what it has to do, but there's only so much I _can_ do. The purple routing should be dead and gone, and it appears 'direct on I-5' was borked by a turn restriction in the first place.
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Post by MiltH
This is brilliant, and should be in the wiki (in some form).

I hope at some point many of these 'hacking the client' methods will be cataloged in the wiki.
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