[USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby jasonh300 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:03 am

Well, I can knock out a portion of vectorspace's objections in one easy sentence: Private businesses are not to be mapped because Waze's business model is to sell advertising to businesses that want to be mapped.

This is not a matter for debate.

This eliminates Walmarts, private golf courses, restaurants, bars, coffee shops, hotels, motels, private campsites and RV parks, pharmacies, etc.

While pharmacies may seem to be a public necessity, they're still private businesses. If Waze contracts with CVS to put each of their stores on the map, then they'll lose value in their advertising if editors are adding Walgreens and Rite-Aid locations as landmarks. The same goes for just about every commercial interest on the map.

It's for the same reason that Ramada, Taco Bell, and Dunkin Donuts have spent big bucks with Waze to put their hotels and shops on the maps, we can't put Holiday Inns, Del Taco or Tim Hortons on the map for free.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:25 am

pjlasl wrote:I wish there was a more universal acceptance to editing. This is a good start if accepted by more peeps

My pet peeve is editors marking all drive ways in neighborhoods. Or every parking lot road possible in a lot ...


Please report editors who do that sort of thing. Compliance with the Wiki guidelines is not optional.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 pm

daknife wrote:On hospitals/clinics, I think we need to discuss what level is allowed. Do we accept all medical facilities? Is it limited to just Hospitals? Or are Insta-care's allowed/accepted. I think this field needs a bit more clarification because I don't think we want every Dr's Office marked, but can see the need for more than just Hospitals, particularly with Insta-care/remote ER type facilities.


Think Hospitals as a public service. There's probably an official list somewhere. I'll see if I can find something.

Clinics, doctor's offices, standalone urgent cares, etc. are private businesses for whom we shouldn't be providing free advertising.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:30 pm

jemay wrote:
2.6 Stadium / Sports Facility - Mapped as building shape, adjacent parking lots are mapped using Parking Lot Roads.

This one seems to contradicts most of the other items, in regards to "including parking lot(s) in one landmark" and "at the fence line".


Because the shape of a stadium is recognizable, especially when it's round.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby DrockMiller » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:32 pm

I agree that hospitals with 24-hour care is a good rule for mapping hospitals. It goes along with the reason for mapping police and fire departments in that it is a place you can get help if you're in trouble.

2.10 Camp site / RV Park - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.


I mentioned this in the original thread, but I think it got overlooked in the scope of a larger discussion. What about mapping camp sites like we do beaches by marking them as parks? Camp sites are many times part of a park anyway and you can't always rely on a POI search to find a campsite.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby Daknife » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:13 am

I have no ties to the company at all. I do consider myself a virtual shareholder in that I like what they offer and have put thousands of hours into making the maps better. But I get and deserve no monetary remuneration for my time and efforts. My purpose for posting as I did is that I recognize that if Waze can't remain profitable, then Waze goes away.

But you are trying to dance away from my point. You claimed so much knowledge or investment yet you've been involved with Waze just over a month. You haven't seen how the maps have improved and evolved over time. I've only seen it for just over a year. You are disparaging the positions explained by long time editors, many of whom have met repeatedly with Waze staff and discussed the goals plans and intentions of Waze directly with the staff and even with the founder.

So when Jason says something is not up for discussion that is fact, not up for debate.

Here it is again. It is from Waze, via their appointed Champs.
Jasonh300 stated
Well, I can knock out a portion of vectorspace's objections in one easy sentence: Private businesses are not to be mapped because Waze's business model is to sell advertising to businesses that want to be mapped.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby Daknife » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:13 am

Okay but take a look at the when joined and post count of those of us saying NO. And compare it to yours. We are speaking from experience. I've seen areas like I described, I've looked at them in the client and they are worse than a map with no landmarks at all.

I've only been doing this for just over a year and I still feel myself a newbie compared to Jason, Bgoddette, Mapcat or Alan of the Berg. Andy's a Waze Champ but otherwise he's got the same experience level as I do, I beat him into Wazeland by three days.

We the users have no business marking any businesses. What seems like a good idea may actually be one, until it costs Waze the big advertising contract needed to keep the company and thus the app alive.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby Daknife » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:59 am

timl2k12 wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:Well, I can knock out a portion of vectorspace's objections in one easy sentence: Private businesses are not to be mapped because Waze's business model is to sell advertising to businesses that want to be mapped.

This is not a matter for debate.


Is that a quote from Waze TOS? How do you know waze's business model doesn't allow businesses and such to be mapped? Perhaps they have the infrastructure there for future plans that they feel don't conflict with their business model. Let Waze worry about their business model. We editors do not work for or get paid by waze. If they don't want businesses being mapped then they need to put it in their terms of service, or at least remove the option. Editors are users too, not employees of waze. So the matter is very much up for debate, until waze intervenes and provides enforceable guidelines. If it really is against their business model to landmark businesses why would they have the option?

While not in the TOS, please note that the Waze Champs actually do have the ability to communicate directly with Waze staff. So when a Champ makes a point as strongly as Jason did, it's because there is backbone behind it. On the point of not advertising there is very little wiggle. We love Waze, it's why we spend so much time editing trying to make it better and better. If Waze the company can't make a profit, it will go away and Waze the app would soon belong to Google (maybe not so bad) or Apple (no thanks). Don't get me wrong I'll argue what should be landmarked at the drop of a hat. I'm a big part of the reason this thread came about. I don't totally agree with all the suggestions as noted in my prior posts in this thread, but on why so many locations should not be mapped the not advertising is a big one that I totally support.

One other consideration vectorspace has not made. What happens when all those little landmarks start pressing together? They turn into one big blob of landmark, with names floating seemingly at random. Those of us who have edited for a while have seen areas where nearly everything is/was marked as you think it should be, and the landmarks are useless. In the client at maximum zoom you can't even tell where one landmark ends and the next begins, you can't tell what that business name there belongs too. It's simply useless and clutters the map enough to start making it difficult to find the names of the roads. Thus less is better.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby Daknife » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:18 am

Thanks for catching that Andy, that's what I thought the rule was on small lots. But Cracked had the Wiki linked so I didn't correct him.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby Daknife » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:39 pm

Insta-cares also serve the same public service as Hospitals, i.e. somewhere to go when you get hurt. As I said, this needs discussion. And Hospitals are also (at least where I live) all run by private corporations, how are we not advertising for them?
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