kentsmith9 wrote:"...is generated automatically by the Waze routing engine for turns from segments newly added to current or new junctions, and original base map imported junctions not set manually by an editor."

Sound good to me.

kentsmith9 wrote:In that case I propose a slight adjustment to point that out
"...is generated automatically by the Waze routing engine for turns from segments newly added to current or new junctions, but the already present segments in the junction will have hard restricted turns going to the newly added segment. Also original base map imported junctions not set manually by an editor will be soft restricted."
When the new editor goes live we can add a few shots of the arrows with and without "?" to illustrate this better.

Well as I don't really understand the internal working of the hard/soft distinctions, I can't be sure that this is always true in all cases, but this statement certainly agrees with my experience.

ncc1701v wrote:And I can't find the thread I'm looking for. But here's the idea: when Waze arrives at a junction, if there is only one valid continuation it might not give you an instruction, even if it's a significant turn. If one of the reds is soft instead of hard, Waze says that _might_ be valid, so it is more likely to give an instruction. The gist is that making turns hard can change the client's instructions.

There is this section of the wiki. But that gets into the morass of what waze means when it says "lock." I have less of an understanding of what a locked node is than how soft turn restrictions work. My experience is that waze will give turn instructions for angles of greater that 45 degrees when a road ends at a T on a one way road even where the turn restrictions are hard enabled. There are multitudes of T intersections on split roads where the turn left instruction is given.

I'm away from the computer at the moment. But, I'm I pretty sure I can find many examples of segments that T into a one-way road where all turn restrictions are hard where you get a turn left instruction. As I mentioned, anytime you T into a split road you have this circumstance and normally you get the left turn instruction.

davipt wrote:Of course it will say turn left.

I agree that it does and should. But my most straightforward reading of the "How Waze determines turn / keep / exit maneuvers" wiki section would indicate that if the node is locked that no instruction would be given because that there is only one valid route and thus the maneuver will be "continue straight." But, this is not what actually seems to happen.

Thus, I don't think we should be stating that the soft/hard distinction has an effect on routing instructions in other sections of the wiki.

So if you make a turn near 90 degrees (over 45 degrees) where there are only two segments at the junction like from Wheatfield Dr to Daniels Purchase Dr here you do not get a turn instruction. (I don't have the livemap plugin here, but the instructions don't show on the navigation list if I route through that junction on my phone.) I've never seen an instruction in a case like this regardless of the soft/hard status of the turn settings. This is consistent with condition 1 in the wiki.

If you make a turn near 90 degrees onto a one way road like from Menteth Point Dr to southbound Veterans Hwy here, you do get an instruction to turn left. Again, I've noticed no difference dependent on the soft/hard status of the turn settings in circumstance like this. Although, there is only one valid routing option, the turn instruction is given. This is not consistent with condition 1.1 in the wiki.

I thought I remembered something, but couldn't for the life myself find it.
Thanks.
But we should now update it with the visuals provided by the new release of the editor.

Care to share your fix?

Thanks for the great reply. Some followup:

mapcat wrote:The routing engine can override anything since it's all based on penalties. Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote.

I did not state that explicitly, but can add information or consolidate other info on that topic already in the Wiki.

mapcat wrote:Waze does not support time based restrictions, so if it's not allowed for a specific time frame, then it's not allowed.

I recall many threads discussing this, but I don't recall a final recommendation. I think this thread could spawn that decision here or in a related thread. If it was decided, I missed it in my search and I don't recall it getting into the Wiki yet. We should note that some restrictions are for commute traffic flow control and some are for other reasons. I know one road in my area is no right turn during late hours when most people are not around. Otherwise the majority of traffic is allowed. Shall we play it safe and say No turn if "ever" restricted even if only for 3 hours on a weekday?

mapcat wrote:After creating a junction, first make sure all the one-ways & two-ways are set correctly, and then QW.

Excellent point to save extra clicks.

mapcat wrote:Pressing only W (without Q first) does not clear out incorrect allowed turns (including reverse connectivity). It just turns all current soft or hard restrictions off.

1. I thought Reverse Connectivity was a thing of the past that we did not have to contend with any more based on what I thought I was reading in the Known Issues list. Maybe I am wrong and we need a whole section on Map Troubleshooting with that in there. (Next topic. )

2. Your description of what W does on its own is a little different than what I thought Alan had previously told me. I also realize I did not include my understanding of that function. So based on what you wrote and what I thought, here is what I propose we add to the General Section with what we have already on QW:

• Pressing only the W shortcut (without the Q first) only turns any soft or hard restrictions to hard enabled turns. It does not convert any soft enabled turns to hard enabled turns. Also, with previously drawn "one-way" or "no entrance" roads using the older Cartouche map editor, there may be soft or hard enabled turns for the opposite direction of travel that are not visible on the map, but can effect traffic routing. Therefore it is best to always press Q just before using W on all segments where you are using the W shortcut. The Waze development team is considering adding this functionality to the operation of the W key to simplify matters (date TBD).

Frankly the Reverse Connectivity issue really seems like a bug in the navigation router that should be fixable. It appears to be causing very significant problems and effort to fix at the map level with millions of junctions where the routing code could do a better job at understanding what is currently "active" for that segment or junction like we see on the map. Maybe I still don't fully understand the problem in the first place.

mapcat wrote:Extended tools "allow all turns" sets them all to soft enabled, not hard enabled.

This leads back to two of my prior questions wondering why we care if a turn is hard or soft enabled:

• (Is there any other reason beyond the different turn penalty for not wanting a soft enabled turn?)
• (Can a soft enabled turn automatically convert back to a soft restricted turn?)