Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby RallyChris » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:02 pm

Your images aren't working, but I could believe that there is a high penalty for turning onto a parking lot road, to avoid routing trying to shortcut across them when the destination is not in that parking lot.

I've seen behavior where routing will make me go around the block on public streets even though their is a shorter path through the parking lot. In this case, the destination is one parking lot segment from the "suggested" route, but three parking lot segments from the "best" route. My suspicion is that since my destination is not on the first parking lot road, once the higher penalties are put in place, the public road is preferred.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby RallyChris » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:48 pm

Oh... it's just my proxy server. Weird complaint about authentication. Oh well... pulled it up on a non-proxied connection.

It looks like based on process of elimination, is that it is the southern node of the parking lot loop that is causing the issue. Without having the route diagnostic tools that support has, can't say much more. It all looks okay. Might try removing the node, and putting a new one in.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby RallyChris » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:28 pm

support wrote:Hi!

regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution that if you are already located on a parking lot road, you will get a logical route (meaning that waze wont try to avoid these roads)

thanks,

Ori.


There was some confusion on what the issue was. Unfortunately it is not a routing on/through a parking lot road. There is a routing issue with routing through a node that has a parking lot road on it. We might have figured out that it's a connectivity thing, but if you guys could validate it based on your "super" :) tools. It would be appreciated.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby robin1979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:19 pm

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby support » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:24 pm

Hi!

regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution that if you are already located on a parking lot road, you will get a logical route (meaning that waze wont try to avoid these roads)

thanks,

Ori.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:37 pm

We can safely assume that parking lot road intersections in general do not cause problems because in the vast majority of cases they work perfectly as expected. We should assume there is something wrong with this intersection.

And indeed there is. Note that I am not blaming the map editor. I also have theories as to why this has manifested now. But here is not the place for my speculations. But I can offer a solution that will fix it now, and stop it ever happening again here, or at other intersections.

In Cartouche if you click on the parking lot road and look at the connectivity, you'll see the green lines marking where people can travel to, when leaving the one way road. You will see they can turn north or south into Ehitajate tee

But now click on that northern segment of Ehitajate tee - just north of the parking lot exit - the short segment. Look for the brown lines that show the source roads. The parking lot road is not included.

How to fix: Using Cartouche, choose Add new junction, and tick "enable all turns". Click on the parking lot exit junction where it meets Ehitajate tee. In a few days when the Live Map updates, you will be able to route through there.

This happens when people manually connect roads, rather than adding junctions with "enable all turns". That, combined with changes in directionality (making roads one way, and changing their direction), and possibly also people driving along them, leads to bad things happening. Manually connecting roads should be avoided wherever possible. Enable all turns, and then apply turn restrictions.

You are thinking, it should work either way. You are right. It should. My observation is that it causes problems. Sad.

Readd the junction in, and let us know how it goes.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:18 am

zCougar wrote:Does routing calculation always use the data from the same moment that live map does?


No, it takes about 1-2 days before routing uses everything new in the Livemap. Or that's what I think based on observation.

Your description of the segment missing when you remove the junction... my observation is this happens when two one way roads are connected by junctions, and then made two way roads afterwards. That would make sense with the strange connectivity you saw. There seems to be a hangover effect. I'm sure you have fixed it now.

Can I just ask how you added the junctions. You should have just been able to to select Add a junction, click on "enable all turns" and click on the existing junction to the south. Did you do that? Did you enable all turns?

Oh, and one more thing to remember. Cartouche caches the connectivity colouring, so even after you change it, it will show the old connectivity. You can force a refresh by changing the zoom level up or down one. If you didn't do that, it may have been fixed without you noticing.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:52 pm

zCougar wrote:Should I add new junction top of existing? So far i have feeling that then there will be two junctions very close to each other and hard to remove one. I have fixed several map errors like that before where only solution was to disconnect all segments an then remove junctions too.


Yes definitely put a junction on top of the existing one. Cartouche tries to be clever and usually succeeds. When you place a junction it will look for neighbouring junctions and roads. It will replace the existing junctions (more than one) and connect the roads. If a little segment of road goes past the junction, it will be cut off.

How far away Cartouche looks for nearby junctions and roads depends on your zoom level. The close you zoom in, the closer you can place junctions to each other, and to roads, without them connecting. The mid zoom level of 100m/200ft is best for normal work, but you can zoom out to quickly fix up multiple junctions in a cluster with dangling roads, or zoom in for close work around complex intersections.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:48 am

support wrote:regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution


That's great @Ori, but it wasn't the problem being reported here. Here there was a major road running past a parking lot loop (crescent), but routing was failing to go along the major road past one of the parking lot roads.

What we found is that connectivity looked correct when looking at the main road but not when looking at the parking road. The parking lot road would show you could exit and turn left on to the main road. But the main road did not show that your could come left out of the parking lot road.

I have never seen inconsistent connectivity before. It is fixed now.

So it is great that you will resolve driving through connected parking lot roads. But this was not the problem here.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:42 pm

zCougar wrote:Still I have the same intersection problems where I checked all segments and there are all turns allowed. No one way roads or any other tricky things:

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=8&l ... =100720700


This looks like a routing bug to me. I'm going to email support.

It will route North to South along Kadaka Tee between A. H. Tammsaare tee and Akadeemia tee but not South to North.
Connectivity is good.
None of the roads have been edited for 2 months, so it's stable.
My guess is that not only is the route algorithm weighted highly against driving through parking lot roads - it also has a high weight against going through intersections with parking lot roads. Which is just wrong.

Good spot zcougar
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