Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:42 pm

zCougar wrote:Still I have the same intersection problems where I checked all segments and there are all turns allowed. No one way roads or any other tricky things:

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=8&l ... =100720700


This looks like a routing bug to me. I'm going to email support.

It will route North to South along Kadaka Tee between A. H. Tammsaare tee and Akadeemia tee but not South to North.
Connectivity is good.
None of the roads have been edited for 2 months, so it's stable.
My guess is that not only is the route algorithm weighted highly against driving through parking lot roads - it also has a high weight against going through intersections with parking lot roads. Which is just wrong.

Good spot zcougar
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby zCougar » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Yes, this one is fixed and it was related with "loop" problem. After adding additional junction all turns went okay.

Still I have the same intersection problems where I checked all segments and there are all turns allowed. No one way roads or any other tricky things:

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=8&l ... =100720700

And one more I know:

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... g=98419881

This is more complicated as there are actual turn restrictions also.

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:48 am

support wrote:regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution


That's great @Ori, but it wasn't the problem being reported here. Here there was a major road running past a parking lot loop (crescent), but routing was failing to go along the major road past one of the parking lot roads.

What we found is that connectivity looked correct when looking at the main road but not when looking at the parking road. The parking lot road would show you could exit and turn left on to the main road. But the main road did not show that your could come left out of the parking lot road.

I have never seen inconsistent connectivity before. It is fixed now.

So it is great that you will resolve driving through connected parking lot roads. But this was not the problem here.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby RallyChris » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:28 pm

support wrote:Hi!

regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution that if you are already located on a parking lot road, you will get a logical route (meaning that waze wont try to avoid these roads)

thanks,

Ori.


There was some confusion on what the issue was. Unfortunately it is not a routing on/through a parking lot road. There is a routing issue with routing through a node that has a parking lot road on it. We might have figured out that it's a connectivity thing, but if you guys could validate it based on your "super" :) tools. It would be appreciated.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby support » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:24 pm

Hi!

regarding "parking lots roads" - indeed the their penalty is very high ( in order to prevent waze to make "shortcuts" through malls), but we are working on a solution that if you are already located on a parking lot road, you will get a logical route (meaning that waze wont try to avoid these roads)

thanks,

Ori.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby robin1979 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:19 pm

31
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby zCougar » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:41 pm

I have seen also junctions so close that even with 5m/10ft zoom it is not possible to select them separately but you always get only one selected. Then I usually just change one segment geometry so that I can get another junction out of this. Don't remember the map problem number but it had its own code even AFAIK.

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:52 pm

zCougar wrote:Should I add new junction top of existing? So far i have feeling that then there will be two junctions very close to each other and hard to remove one. I have fixed several map errors like that before where only solution was to disconnect all segments an then remove junctions too.


Yes definitely put a junction on top of the existing one. Cartouche tries to be clever and usually succeeds. When you place a junction it will look for neighbouring junctions and roads. It will replace the existing junctions (more than one) and connect the roads. If a little segment of road goes past the junction, it will be cut off.

How far away Cartouche looks for nearby junctions and roads depends on your zoom level. The close you zoom in, the closer you can place junctions to each other, and to roads, without them connecting. The mid zoom level of 100m/200ft is best for normal work, but you can zoom out to quickly fix up multiple junctions in a cluster with dangling roads, or zoom in for close work around complex intersections.
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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby zCougar » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:13 am

Should I add new junction top of existing? So far i have feeling that then there will be two junctions very close to each other and hard to remove one. I have fixed several map errors like that before where only solution was to disconnect all segments an then remove junctions too.

Your observation regarding connecting one way roads could be true. This is exactly what I feel too. Most of streets here are built from one way tracks. Sometimes junctions already exist and I just remove all turn restrictions, sometimes there is no junction and segments need to extended over other streets to add junctions. Yes, "enable all turns" is always enabled and also when I change segment direction I always select junctions on both ends and remove all turn restrictions (would be cool if more than one junction can be selected and then do the same operation for all of them in one turn).

I'm not 100% sure I refreshed Cartouche but I know this limitation. I guess it was related with these one way roads converted to two-way later but can't be sure. It wasn't waze webinar but another video "Waze editing #2 - loops and more intersection connections" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1vc9CZGTrY)where remark was made that add additional junction when two segments are connected to the same junctions but this based on old version of Cartouche.

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Re: Possible bug with intersections with parking lot roads

Postby waynemcdougall » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:18 am

zCougar wrote:Does routing calculation always use the data from the same moment that live map does?


No, it takes about 1-2 days before routing uses everything new in the Livemap. Or that's what I think based on observation.

Your description of the segment missing when you remove the junction... my observation is this happens when two one way roads are connected by junctions, and then made two way roads afterwards. That would make sense with the strange connectivity you saw. There seems to be a hangover effect. I'm sure you have fixed it now.

Can I just ask how you added the junctions. You should have just been able to to select Add a junction, click on "enable all turns" and click on the existing junction to the south. Did you do that? Did you enable all turns?

Oh, and one more thing to remember. Cartouche caches the connectivity colouring, so even after you change it, it will show the old connectivity. You can force a refresh by changing the zoom level up or down one. If you didn't do that, it may have been fixed without you noticing.
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