Un-named segments for better navigation

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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:18 am

I thought we had a solution to this problem with what is in the Junction Style Guide. As I said earlier, this solution has the typical problem of masking and isolating the data that tells Waze routing what traffic is headed one direction or another.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:33 pm

I thought we already came up with a solution to this problem clearly detailed in Junction Style Guide - Freeway Splits. I believe this method was completely tested and worked great for this situation. It covered routing, TTS, visual map appearance, and no traffic tracking issues.

What in this setup is not covered in that section?

ncc1701v wrote:segments don't know anything, only the client or route server (collectively "Waze") knows.

I believe AlanOfTheBerg told me from a prior conversation with Waze that the database tracks the average transit times from segment to segment so it can be applied to routing decisions. The problem with a short segment just before the Y-split is only the short segment will have two different average speeds exiting that segment. So when the traffic backs up longer than the short segment, the next segment with only one exit (to the short segment) will only have a single average speed from the two segments beyond it's reach. So yes the routing server knows where the next car is going, but it only has one average speed from the segment before the short one.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:19 pm

For this particular area I agree with the proposal to simply make that part of the freeway (the two noted segments) a ramp. That will not have the problem of routing I mentioned earlier, e.g., there is no short unnamed segment inserted before the "Y". Yes there is a segment that is unnamed before the "Y", but that is the actual roadway and nothing special should be necessary. Because that segment is as long as possible back to the merge of the two prior ramps, all is as good as you can get it.

There was a prior conversation to insert a short segment before a "Y" to try to control naming that induced me to post my concern for routing. This is not that same "Y".
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:07 pm

ncc1701v wrote:Thanks, Kent, for the 1:1 guidance.

My pleasure.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed May 01, 2013 1:06 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
ncc1701v wrote:segments don't know anything, only the client or route server (collectively "Waze") knows.

I believe AlanOfTheBerg told me from a prior conversation with Waze that the database tracks the average transit times from segment to segment so it can be applied to routing decisions. The problem with a short segment just before the Y-split is only the short segment will have two different average speeds exiting that segment. So when the traffic backs up longer than the short segment, the next segment with only one exit (to the short segment) will only have a single average speed from the two segments beyond it's reach. So yes the routing server knows where the next car is going, but it only has one average speed from the segment before the short one.

I added some material in the Wiki on this topic (separate segment routing times based on different exit segments) under "Turn delays" and also "Segment exit times." Are there other terms that come to mind I should link?
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:48 pm

Think I'll test this theory on these ramp segments:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... 5,12925503

Attention was called to it with this UR:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-157.9 ... TTTFTTTTFT

In case it's closed, here's what it looks like:

H1H3.png
H1H3.png (240.69 KiB) Viewed 979 times


The stated problem:
it told me to go the comlplete wrong way on the merger it split into 3 lanes and the map didnt even recogonize that

Just guessing that this was the "merger" that was meant, though it may not be. Drove there and when the highlighted segments then led either to the E-H3 or to the E-H201, I got no nav guidance telling me there was a choice.

Any idea on how to test this? Should I delete the name on both the highlighted segments, or just the first? (In any case, I'll save it someplace so I can put it back if it doesn't work!) :)
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:16 am

Nacron, I don't know. But a fairly minor change may work. The turn-off onto the EH-3 access gets a nav prompt just fine (tried it on my way home tonight).

But my recollection from an earlier test is that the ramp leading to the E-H201 gets no prompt -- I'm guessing because there's no "turn." I tweaked a geometry node where it pulls away, and after the next update, I'll check it. Meantime, no harm, no foul.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:27 pm

Thanks! Looks like I have to add an unnamed highway segment where the split appears to be straight, and then resume the ramp type. Will look a bit odd on the map, but I tested it again last night after dropping my husband off at the airport. The need for a navigation prompt to the EH201 is that if you don't get a "stay to the right" instruction, you may be in the left lane that takes you off to the EH-3.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:15 am

I agree with the sentiment. I don't mind the experimental tweaking of the map to achieve this or that -- this is all rather inexact. I just wish we could communicate with Wazers who post update requests, that's all.

Returning to my ramp-segment issue: It appears that bending the geometry of the ramp generated a navigation prompt, which is great. Now I'm easing the angle slightly to see if I can get it to say "stay to the right" instead of "turn right." May not need to add a wayfinder segment, after all.
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Re: Un-named segments for better navigation

Postby Machete808 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:35 am

CBenson wrote:I didn't see the angle to cause the turn instruction. The turn seems to be back to no instruction.


Well, at max zoom, it shows, now less acute:

Screen Shot 2013-04-20 at 6.29.24 PM.png
Screen Shot 2013-04-20 at 6.29.24 PM.png (48.17 KiB) Viewed 971 times


But it seems that won't work, right? (Haven't had a chance to recheck it.) Read the wiki, and it looks as if I should insert an unnamed ramp segment at the start of the split. I'll try that. Thanks again!
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