Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

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Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby TheOtherNeo » Sun May 05, 2013 7:55 pm

I have been reading up on using split lanes versus single streets on the forums; it appears that using a two-way street is now the preferred way of creating roads. Split lanes should only be used for major highways and freeways. For us that would be the E-something (E-11, E-66, E-311 etc.) roads.

Two-way streets can be marked with a u-turn, and from the forums it seems that this functionality will be rolled out to the apps at a later stage in order to allow roads to receive updates first (U-turn Restrictions?). There are a quite a number of roads in Dubai marked as split-lanes which could benefit from being reduced to a two-way street with the proper turn restritions such as Jumeira Road.

Another note: for landmarks, it is suggested that the number of points should be kept to a minimum and not every detail needs to be drawn (Landmark Database Size Reduction).
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby nomadica » Tue May 14, 2013 8:33 pm

Can you link some reading on this?

Just now i was converting some two way roads in tecom to split lanes because i know the roads have a barrier in between them so i thought logically it makes sense to have separate roads. I assumed whoever drew the original road was just being too lazy to draw two roads.

on the other hand i can see how it would reduce clutter by doing it this way

I have a feeling that if we convert roads to two ways, future wazers will assume the same thing i did and do the same thing in response rendering the reduction efforts useless.

any thoughts?
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby houstonmg » Tue May 14, 2013 9:52 pm

the most easy and correct is one two way road. don't open a two way road if they are so close and then you have to make a U turn.
Sorry for my inglish
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby TheOtherNeo » Wed May 15, 2013 1:47 pm

Here is a topic from the main forums un-splitting roads: https://world.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48787

For the North American server, the u-turn function was added somewhere in 2011, for the World server (i.e. the rest of us) this function became available in April 2013 it seems.

The 3.6 Waze App can't support u-turns yet, but might be in the 3.7 version which is currently in test phase.
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby TheOtherNeo » Wed May 15, 2013 1:57 pm

The benefit of using a single two-way road instead of two one-way roads is that you can properly control turn restrictions which becomes nearly impossible when you have four lines crossing.

Two examples I can think of right now with specific turn restrictions:
Hessa Street / First Al Khail Street intersection near Saudi German Hospital
When coming off Hessa street towards First Al Khail Street you can only turn left or right; you are not allowed to continue straight.

Al Waha Street, Al Quoz
For the entire run of Al Waha street you are not allowed to make U-turns, however for the roads it crosses U-turns are allowed on those roads.

Don't even try the spaghetti junctions I have seen - this does not work at all and the voice prompts are misleading.
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby nomadica » Thu May 16, 2013 9:32 am

i see your point, and for sure it would make things less cluttered, but i have a few reservations

current system does work even though its messy. adding another road for a uturn or turn achieves the desired functionality.

yes its more clutter, but its going to be a lot of work to change all the roads, and for sure someone is going to come along and want to change it one day, so it should be clear that this is the official way to do it, otherwise people will just keep disputing and potentially just leave the work unfinished sending innocent bywazers into the dunes, because they are upset that after all their hard work, someone came and deleted it. This will be both ways, and locking won't help if both editors are on the same level.

by pure logic, i would argue that it does make sense to draw the map according to reality. If its a two way road, draw a two way road, a one way road draw a one way road. So even though un-splitting does makes sense, it does go against logic. And if you look at google maps and garmin, they have separate one way roads drawn out, so i think this topic will bring a lot of debate

my suggestion is that we keep things as they are until this is made official, or at least until the app can support uturns
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby TheOtherNeo » Thu May 16, 2013 2:47 pm

As per the Wiki reagding Simplicity.
It is not a goal to model the physical roadway lane-by-lane. Doing so often leads to unnecessary complexity--which means a cluttered map, confusing verbal directions, and lots and lots (and lots!) of extra map maintenance.

When to Split a Two-Way Road (and when not to):
A road should not be split when:
  • There is a curb or non-drivable median less than 5m wide between lanes of travel (see exceptions above).
  • The non-drivable median is interrupted by a cross segment at most intersections.
  • There is a center turn lane (any width) between directions of travel. Splitting this type of road created problems when people turn from the middle lane because there is no road for the navigation to follow.
  • (Just because) Google Maps or other mapping source show it as a split road.

If you have seen the two roads I cleaned up last night, it would be better if there aren't all these small segments to work on. Both these roads had tiny segments which were so small that I had to stretch it out just to be able to select it for deletion. And then also, there were multiple unconnected segments on top of each other.

What the maps needs is a serious cleaning out before is will be usable. As it stands now it can't even give me a proper route to a location which is directly in front of me.
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby houstonmg » Thu May 16, 2013 3:21 pm

The better is simple one road two way. i make two road when thats are separate 15 meters aprox.
I work in your's contry map. drawing and connecting road.
Good edition.
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby nomadica » Fri May 17, 2013 11:36 am

Ok fair enough, but then it also says if there are no problem reports to consider leaving as is.

When initially reviewing whether to split or "un-split" (merge back together) a roadway, consider these points first:

If a road is currently working with no problem reports, consider leaving it as is.
After reviewing the criteria for when to split or not split a road, if you cannot be sure which way to go, consider sending a permalink of the road to the map editing forums to get additional feedback from other editors.
Try to avoid switching roads back and forth between being split and "un-split". For example, if most of the road is clearly split and only parts would be considered a single two-way road, consider leaving it all split. The same goes for the opposite situation.


I'm mostly playing devils advocate here just to make sure we're doing the right thing and to minimize future disputes and potentially reverting back. I think we all have experienced how annoying it is to have your work altered or changed by someone else. This project will be doing exactly that to others.

To be honest, I've been trying to think of reasons how this would negatively impact traffic reporting (which i believe is priority use of Waze) but I have been unable to think of anything substantial, so I can't really argue anything substantial. I have never used it for navigation as I've been driving this city for over a decade, so its purely about avoiding traffic areas for me.

The only thing I can logically argue though at this time is that if the current app doesnt support uturns, and people are currently using this for navigation, its better to wait till its supported.

And I think if we must change certain areas, then we should work together to ensure that its done properly so we don't end up with unfinished work resulting in hundreds of problem reports
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Re: Split Lanes vs Two-Way Roads

Postby TheOtherNeo » Fri May 17, 2013 7:51 pm

The reason I started un-splitting some roads is because they weren't working. In the area around my work I would go somewhere and then set the route back to the office. On one route I was about 2km from the office but it provided me with a 15km route since it couldn't route via the intersections and would mostly only turn right.

I didn't initially un-spit the road, since I also read the same paragraph you quoted about leaving it as is. I tried fixing and repeatedly driving the route over a few weeks, but eventually decided on un-splitting the road; now it works fine.

I still very often, on well frequented roads, find directions where it will not route straight through the intersection, but use multiple right hand turns via the adjoining suburb just to bring me back to the other side of the signal. In many cases the destination would be on my left and I only need to turn left at the next signal, but would be presented with a loooooong loop to the right and then back again.

And I think if we must change certain areas, then we should work together to ensure that its done properly so we don't end up with unfinished work resulting in hundreds of problem reports

100% agree with this, and this is why I opened this thread. At the moment I only work on areas I can complete, and verify every turn restriction in one go. The really long roads I would like us to handle together.

PS: As I also mentioned in a previous post, you won't believe the number messy edit artefacts I found once again on two more roads: There were in places up to four unconnected road segments right on top of each other. As soon as I move the one segment out of the way I find that there are more segments underneath it.
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