Landmark - Best Practices US

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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby doctorkb » Tue May 28, 2013 12:49 am

daknife wrote:
doctorkb wrote:One thing we're also leaving out... people can get navigation from multiple sources. They could have instructions from their friend on how to get to place X -- having the same data points (which may include "turn left at the church" or "go past the McDonald's") aids the user significantly, even if those instructions aren't read aloud or displayed in text form on the screen.
If they are asking a person for directions they won't be relying on a GPS. The GPS won't know about the red barn with the faded tobacco ad, or the Oak tree painted red white and blue, or the Smiths farm, or the church (not all churchs are easily recognized as churches and don't always show up on paper maps anyway.) Local landmark navigation? Talk to Cousin Larry. Address based GPS navigation? landmarks are not needed just turn when it tells you to turn. We rely on GPS to get away from having to ask for such directions. If you want to combine them, well when told to turn left at the little white church, and the GPS tells you to turn left and there is a little white church there, then you know it's okay to turn.


Smart people don't rely on a single source for navigation, especially in areas they don't know.

When stupid people do rely on one source, they end up in the middle of the Australian outback... or worse.

Cousin Larry gives you some good data... "if you pass the red house with the white fence, you've gone too far"... Google gives you some good data... "turn left on 123 St".

Why is there such a problem with Waze giving both?

I'm not suggesting every little thing be marked... I've deleted my fair share of parking lot landmarks.

But really... unless there's a church on two out of every four corners for 10 blocks, what's the harm in listing them?

Same with the cemeteries?

Sometimes it's just plain interesting. And I'd certainly prefer to know about the cemetery I'm driving next to, than where the nearest Ramada is, with an ugly call-out to point it out.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby doctorkb » Tue May 28, 2013 1:34 am

Pretty sure cemeteries don't move.

And I don't remember the last time I heard of a Wal-mart closing.

And while churches move, that happens about as often as a street changes names.

So... Again, what's the deal?

I'm not suggesting we need to landmark every little thing.. But the rules proposed are overly arbitrary.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby Ericular » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:14 pm

vectorspace wrote:What I heard, very resoundingly clear from Ehud, was that he wanted more content. He probably wanted more content than the editors were capable of being comfortable (for various good technical and emotional reasons). So, debating about putting in POIs or not, deleting them, etc., seems a bit silly when the app could do well with more content, both that which shows on the map and that which does not.


It would be nice to see a roadmap of when the client might be improved to either have selectable landmark/POI layers, or more intelligent display based on zoom level and road type. One of the most frustrating parts of map editing for me is having to do non-intuitive things just to cater to the shortcomings of the client. In theory, the more Waze knows, the better it can be. The sooner I can snap to a parking lot road in a confusing shopping complex and get routed to a main road, the better my experience will be. The more landmarks Waze knows the accurate location of, the better it can guide me to them (in theory).

I have some landmarks mapped in my area that are probably valid landmarks that would help people navigate, but they look bad on the client so I consider removing them. It's too bad. Same with points of interest that don't bring you to the ideal location. It's too bad the answer is to improve third-party POI providers when a location is off or business is incorrect, rather than improving Waze.

Still, I understand why things are the way they are, and in most areas road and turn cleanup is priority #1. But once that's completed and thousands of eager map editors are left with nothing to do, I think we could keep up with a lot of these less-popular landmarks types.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby HuckD » Tue May 28, 2013 1:42 am

daknife wrote:...Thus the need for the national standards to be finalized and published back into the wiki...


This is the only thing that will settle this debate!
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:13 am

I put a paragraph in the Wiki last week about landmarks in general and that they should not overlap roads unless they're part of the landmark, so as not to interfere with traffic jam suppression. It was the only reference to landmarks I could find in the Wiki, and it had nothing in it.

Someone needs to get some info together and put it into that page.

CBenson wrote:Opps, sorry didn't get the warning that I was overposting.

:?:
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:39 am

A gas station landmark will suppress reports there, and would be more correct than a parking lot. However, it was mentioned a week or two ago not to add any gas stations until we got to some point with the gas prices functionality. I'm not sure if that's correct or still the case.
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Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:27 am

No. Just Gas Station and Parking Lot as far as I know.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:58 pm

McCracken808 wrote:Since there is no specific category for it, what is the best practice for categorizing a golf course? What is the general consensus?


If you really feel that a golf course must be on the map, you should probably use Park, since it will appear green on the client, rather than blue.
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Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:58 am

jemay wrote:I have been changing the golf courses from Gas Station to Parks


Yeah...Gas Station would probably be a poor choice for a golf course.

I guess you could also use Stadium.

The only three that really matter are Parking Lots, Gas Stations (traffic suppression) and Parks since they appear in a different color. The rest could all be the same, and nobody would ever know from a functional or cosmetic standpoint.

The vast majority of landmark categories are things that shouldn't ever be on the map and would just be clutter.
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Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:01 am

shawndoc wrote:Was that from Waze? I would think it would be okay to add them if you are doing it to suppress traffic and error reports.


Don't know now. That was a behind the scenes thing from a couple of months ago. I think at the time, we thought that the gas prices functionality was going to depend on gas stations being marked as a landmark, but now, I'm pretty sure that the gas price indications are on a separate layer that we can't access, and neither marks the boundaries of the station, nor does it suppress traffic jams.

So I would say that it's safe to put in Gas Station landmarks.
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