Landmark - Best Practices US

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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby AndyPoms » Mon May 27, 2013 12:44 pm

russblau wrote:First, the whole document is a series of instructions in the form "map this, don't map that", without any explanation. That would be fine if this were an employee manual, where people who don't follow arbitrary rules can be disciplined or fired, but the purpose of this document is to provide guidance to a group of volunteers who are unsupervised and pursuing their own personal motivations. If you just tell them "don't map X" without explaining why, they will ignore if it they feel like it. At a minimum, this document needs some explanation of what is the difference between a landmark and a POI, and why it matters for mapping.
There is another document being prepared that will explain the difference between Landmarks & POI and provide more detailed mapping instructions. Those are just the type by type guidelines. That is explained by this part of that topic
the Waze Champs are currently working with the Waze Staff to sort out some misconceptions about landmarks (snapping to roads, suppression of various reports, etc) and will also be creating a page that better addresses the Theory of Operation behind Landmarks shortly.


russblau wrote:Second, given what I understand to be the purpose of landmarks, many of these guidelines make no sense. Why is the "historical importance" of a cemetery of any value in deciding whether it is useful to drivers seeking to orient themselves on the road network? Why are parks or schools, which may be located far off a road, more useful for navigation than a store or office building? A McDonald's at a major intersection may be a more useful landmark than a church that is at the end of a long dead-end street and not visible from any other road. Again, what's the reason for these distinctions?
Well, there is a long standing guideline that we "do not map individual businesses", so that takes care of McDonalds, etc. The thing you need to remember is that Waze isn't going to say "Drive to McDonalds and take a left", it will tell you to "turn left on Main St", it does not matter if McDonalds happens to be at that intersection.

As for the Church, it typically would not get mapped as most churches are not considered "Major" - think more along the lines of the Vatican, Kaaba, & Western Wall.

russblau wrote:...the purpose of this document is to provide guidance to a group of volunteers who are unsupervised and pursuing their own personal motivations.
The Waze Champs, Country Manager & Area Managers actually do supervise the editors, make sure people are following the guidelines, and communicate with the editors. You should also be aware that editors that do not follow the guidelines and refuse to communicate with the Champs can and have had their editing privileges limited and/or revoked.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby russblau » Mon May 27, 2013 12:31 pm

I missed the opportunity to comment on the proposed guidelines a couple of months ago, but I have two comments on them if they are still under review.

First, the whole document is a series of instructions in the form "map this, don't map that", without any explanation. That would be fine if this were an employee manual, where people who don't follow arbitrary rules can be disciplined or fired, but the purpose of this document is to provide guidance to a group of volunteers who are unsupervised and pursuing their own personal motivations. If you just tell them "don't map X" without explaining why, they will ignore if it they feel like it. At a minimum, this document needs some explanation of what is the difference between a landmark and a POI, and why it matters for mapping.

Second, given what I understand to be the purpose of landmarks, many of these guidelines make no sense. Why is the "historical importance" of a cemetery of any value in deciding whether it is useful to drivers seeking to orient themselves on the road network? Why are parks or schools, which may be located far off a road, more useful for navigation than a store or office building? A McDonald's at a major intersection may be a more useful landmark than a church that is at the end of a long dead-end street and not visible from any other road. Again, what's the reason for these distinctions?
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby AndyPoms » Mon May 27, 2013 10:46 am

dctdye wrote:Do we have a guideline on Cemeteries? I've been seeing a lot here lately.

Most of those came from the basemap import.

If you look at the proposed guidelines over here (viewtopic.php?f=129&t=38934) they say
5.8 Cemetery - Typically not mapped and handled by POI Search. HOWEVER, those cemeteries with historical significance or a significant tourist draw can be mapped using this type. Internal roads, if needed, are mapped using the Parking Lot Road Type whether or not the landmark is used. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on which, if any, cemeteries are mapped for this category in your area.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby dctdye » Mon May 27, 2013 7:28 am

Do we have a guideline on Cemeteries? I've been seeing a lot here lately.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby jasonh300 » Mon May 27, 2013 5:26 am

skbun wrote:
On a related note, did Waze fix 'the bug' where newly added stations can't populate price data?


Drawing in a gas station that isn't in the database doesn't do anything but create a useless landmark. I don't know if this is a bug. I think the missing gas stations have to be added from the back end.


Via my iPhone 4S.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby razor2k » Mon May 27, 2013 4:58 am

jasonh300 wrote:One thing I'd like to mention is that I'd like to see the quick link to Parking Lots removed from the Landmarks pulldown in the editor. I really don't think Gas Stations needs to be there anymore after the import, but I guess that could be useful for countries where the gas stations have not yet been imported. They're both inviting people to use them improperly now.


I would like to see the whole landmarks dropdown revamped. Many options serve no purpose anymore.

It could be so much more simplified.

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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby skbun » Mon May 27, 2013 3:18 am

jasonh300 wrote:One thing I'd like to mention is that I'd like to see the quick link to Parking Lots removed from the Landmarks pulldown in the editor. I really don't think Gas Stations needs to be there anymore after the import, but I guess that could be useful for countries where the gas stations have not yet been imported. They're both inviting people to use them improperly now.


I'm going to just say 'don't think this is a good idea', here. I have added at least 50 gas stations SINCE the import that are in fact there. Mostly in more rural areas. The third party import was an excellent start, here, but I've solved many 'missing station' URs and added others. Compare notes with Gasbuddy's map sometime; there is still lots of work to do.

On a related note, did Waze fix 'the bug' where newly added stations can't populate price data?

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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby alarlo » Sun May 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Thank you
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby doctorkb » Sun May 26, 2013 3:17 pm

alarlo wrote:If I understand right, other than the those actual parking lots (The that's a public or paid) all other can be deleted?
Like the one next to malls, businesses or schools etc.

Is it OK delete them?

Thanks.


My rule of thumb: if it isn't named, it gets deleted (or named). I don't believe there is a need for any unnamed landmark other than parks and ponds.

Parking lots that get named: ones on a university campus, park & rides, etc.

Mall lots need to go: they are obvious. But the general consensus is that they should just be included in the mall landmark.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby alarlo » Sun May 26, 2013 2:10 pm

If I understand right, other than the those actual parking lots (The that's a public or paid) all other can be deleted?
Like the one next to malls, businesses or schools etc.

Is it OK delete them?

Thanks.
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