I think it would be very revealing to turn the statement around and ask the plaintiff, "Who do you think should get the most points?" I wonder how often the answer will boil down to the guy in the mirror.

razor2k wrote:

harling wrote:I think it would be very revealing to turn the statement around and ask the plaintiff, "Who do you think should get the most points?" I wonder how often the answer will boil down to the guy in the mirror.

Maybe not as often as you would think...not everyone has an agenda;)

My guess would have been 9 out of 10 complainants. And I don't mean their response would be a blantant "I should get the most points", but whoever they describe as the most deserving, I'd bet at least 90% would fall into that category themselves.

When I started with Waze last year, I tried using it for commuting to work in London and for a holiday to Wales. It didn't work. It was only able to give me 1 useful route to/from work and was nearly useless in the rural areas of Wales. Had I been just a driver, I would have given up on Waze straight away and gone elsewhere.

I didn't. Instead I have dedicated thousands of hours to editing the maps and engaging with the Waze community (something which, incidentally, has supplied far more social interaction than I have ever had before - I am an introvert).

That work means that a large portion of London is now completely navigable with Waze. It means that 30 or more major urban areas and many small villages are now able to be properly navigated with Waze. It means (I hope) that hundreds of people who might formerly have tried & abandoned Waze have instead found that it is worth using.

I have 1 million points and 300K edits, I am in the top 10 all-time for my country and top 100 all-time for the ROTW - and I am extremely proud of that. Given that I get nothing else from Waze except those points and the support of the community, it's hard to explain why I bother to do this. I probably wouldn't do it if my effort to create the maps was buried by those using it.

I do not want to minimize the effort of those drivers who simply use Waze. Even making no reports, they still contribute the speed data that allows Waze to provide something the basic satnavs can't. However, that speed data is useless if an incorrect map means that Waze can't select available routes.

As for reporting, the problem has always been people gaming the system. If we make reporting more valuable, there are people who will simply report for points - making reports useless. It would, perhaps, make more sense to give points for reports based on thanks from other users, rather than on the report itself.

This has made me think about the whole issue and I feel there is one situation that is unfair to the drivers: User Requests. As a user, you can report an issue with the map - this places a user request on the map which an editor has to deal with. It's absolutely right that the editor should be rewarded for fixing the problem - after all, that work will provide benefit to every future user of the map. However we would not have known about that problem without your report. I would be happy to see quite a large points bonus go to the user who accurately reports a problem that can be identified and fixed. To avoid gaming the system, you would probably have to make it so that you can't give yourself a bonus based on your own reports.

I would also quite like to see a separate "top drivers" scoreboard, based on miles driven (which contributes to the Waze data), map problems reported (resulting in an improvement to the map) and thanked "live" reports.

Finally, I want to say this: the primary model of Waze is to provide routing based on current user driving experience. Without drivers using Waze, it would be useless. However, without the massive effort the editors put in (for free) we would have practically no drivers at all because the maps would be so poor nobody would keep using Waze.

[EDIT] Corrected a mistake - I didn't mean to say "hundreds thousands of hours" But it is thousands!

DragonDon wrote:EVERY single report I've made about cops, road hazard, closures to date has been 100%, Truthful, honest. I DO NOT report just to get points, period.

I don't know about others, but personally it ain't fair to be doubted on my LIGITMATE contribution.

I'm sure nobody here is doubting your contributions. The very fact you're willing to engage with the community marks you out as someone who genuinely cares about the way Waze works and wants to contribute - and I'm sure everybody reading this thread recognizes that. I'm just saying that, for every 99 people trying to help those around them (and valuing the points as a recognition of that effort), there is 1 person who only cares about the points and wants to see their name "up in lights".

The editing side is no different. For every 99 editors who dedicate hours to examining maps, cruising Street View, visiting locations to check and adding value to the maps, there is 1 editor who mass-edits areas for points without adding any value at all. The difference is that they can do far more damage - and that's why bad editors can and do have their privileges removed.

I'll be honest - you're theoretically preaching to an unsympathetic audience. The majority of drivers will never visit the forums, so we're mostly editors here - and, of course, we're going to think that map editing should get the most points. I just hope we don't come across as hostile.

I really do think that map editing provides massive value to Waze. But I also agree with you that this minimizes the effort put in by drivers willing not just to use Waze, but to contribute through the application.

harling wrote:I think it would be very revealing to turn the statement around and ask the plaintiff, "Who do you think should get the most points?" I wonder how often the answer will boil down to the guy in the mirror.

I'm sure you're right. Look back up this thread and you'll see most of the comments are from "editors", justifying why editing is worth the most points (including me).

If "drivers" frequented the forums more, there would be much less of a one-sided debate (but a useful debate nonetheless).

Then again, there are never going to be many "drivers" on the forums. Once they come here, we have a bad habit of getting them addicted and converting them into "editors", who will then believe editing should get the most points.

Your logic is flawed. You have to realize that the top map editors have each put in thousands of hours into providing the maps that you use for free.


Via my iPhone 4S.

sahls72 wrote:It would have saved me from an editor, with a sick sense of humor, that tried to route me through nothing but gas station parking lots and alleys. Of course I understand how difficult it would be to implement a system like this while keeping vandalism under control.

This sort of thing should be reported to your Regional Coordinator immediately with a permalink. Vandalism of the map is taken very seriously.

i completely agree with what has been posted, Priority should be given to the people who are on the road driving and reporting, Map editors should be given on some other category and they can have ranking among map editors and not in common, This will make people to show less interest if they cannot see their name on the top after driving and reporting so much just my view and not offending any one in particular

Without the maps there would be no driving. There is so much that needs to be done to the maps to get them fully functional around the world, Waze determined that they wanted more points to go that way. Certainly at some point most of the maps will be more or less complete, and you will no longer see so many points for editing the map.

It is not always about the points. Some of us spent hundreds of hours working on the Wiki for the betterment of the community without a single earned point.