Waze joins Google

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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:59 pm

fvwazing wrote:Google has a mapservice that is considered very good - they do NOT need Waze at all.


Speak for yourself. In my experience in Portugal not only there is no mapmaker support, but everywhere I look at I see bugs on gmaps, some are years and years old, most are routes that will get you a big ticket, the street names are all wrong - google decided to take the pronouns out, so the street is wrong in correct Portuguese - and due to their machine automatic mapping there were huge mistakes like assigning shields to wrong roads when a freeway ends and google decides to keep the freeway name all the way forward. In other words, in Portugal Bing kicks ass to Google, but both are miles away from Waze. I can imagine similar cases in many other countries. I'm pretty sure Google is better in countries with official and up-to-date data provided by the government, like maybe the USA, but surely not that good in the whole world.
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:20 pm

sketch wrote:
davipt wrote:and due to their machine automatic mapping there were huge mistakes like assigning shields to wrong roads when a freeway ends and google decides to keep the freeway name all the way forward.

Google does this in the USA too, maybe not with Interstates, but definitely with US Highways.


I have to be honest and admit that after some six month being broken, it got fixed again some weeks ago, but this is one of the cases I was refering: http://goo.gl/maps/haC21

Coming from south, the freeway is called A2. Then there is the bridge, with it's own name. Then north of the bridge, up to the end, it's called "Eixo Norte/Sul" (North/South Axis). Then in Portugal we have the concept of IP (Primary Itinerary) and IC (Complementary Itinerary) which are usually the sum of several parts of one or more street types. This IP7 is a itinerary coming from the deep south. Same happens with the E01 - european routes that crosses multiple streets and countries.
Anyway, Google was showing A2 all over the bridge and the Eixo-Norte-Sul all over.

For completeness, Bing also screwed up the shields a couple months ago. We have some national roads named like N249-3, and since that day those highways' shields says only "3" :D
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:46 pm

fvwazing wrote:Lol, this is swaying waaaaay off topic, guys. When I say G's maps are CONSIDERED to be good I mean that the perception of the general public is that they are good. We, editors, see that different. AppleMaps are considered crappy by the same general public - but they are maybe 98% correct, just not correct enough.


Again I disagree. Google maps are CONSIDERED good because of street view and the satellite images (even if sometimes bing is better, some people will probably not look at it for being microsoft), and google earth, and, I need to admit, the vectorial stuff is usually much nicer than others.

For navigation, I doubt it, from my country's experience and assuming the same happens in other "lesser" countries. And again I'm not talking about small interior villages that nobody drives - those also need a lot of help on Waze - but the streets that thousands of people drive every day.
My drive home-work is the a very simple 20-25km trip through normal streets. Google can't drive me there without doing an illegal u-turn. Funny thing I found the bug on Google because I myself had done a mistake on waze and almost screwed it in a similar way, but on Waze I got it fixed even before any update screwed it, and google is still broken.

Another funny thing is that with our experience with the waze editor we start looking at details on the other maps and seeing that they also commit the same mistakes as us. Stuff like having slight variations on city names and then seeing double labels, or seeing those cases where street names appear larger than the city label itself. Basically everytime I see such a thing my brain just clicks on the segment trying to fix it. I want my mapmaker for Portugal!
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:07 pm

jeffcarp wrote:Generalizing one service's maps as good or not good is a complete waste of time in my opinion. The differences within one Country are massive let alone between Countries. This is a neighborhood by neighborhood question and all of us have only an infinitesimal fraction of experience with the entire breadth of the maps offered by these companies.


Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to rationalize this buying as a positive thing by looking back at google maps over the places I know - most of Portugal and 8 years of a small part of Germany and the highways in between - and trying to understand the evolution during all these years, specially now with the inside experience of Waze editing and using those edits in real life. And what I see on Google looks like an attempt to put the machines in charge and get the maps updated automatically - I recall something about OCR reading the street name signs - which is taking the maps into the bad place I've been "bashing" above. I'm not complaining in the absolute meaning, but in the sense that it feels like Google was getting behind, or even worse than before, so I'm trying to convince myself that Google understood that millions of people are always better than millions of CPU cycles and hence why Waze came into the picture. I personally have some hate (better than hate, I'm at the indifference stage) with Microsoft, but when I myself have to admit that in certain aspects (for my areas, again) bing is better than google, I kind of feel bad for google. Unfortunately then I tried to help google, but couldn't, and then found OSM, which hated the editor, and then found Waze. Now the circle completes!
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:45 am

edsonajj wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
edsonajj wrote:Only for the US-Canada server. ROTW probably needs a lot more processing power.

Nope. I just added this segment and it shows (on click) on the Livemap instantly.

Then the new livemap was applied to both servers? Since the beta thread always said it was only for US/Canada I hadn't even bothered to check on ROTW.


That's a big mess on livemap then. And I'm sure this is some feature that nobody knew about and that is around way before the new live map on the US.

So there are three relevant "features" on livemap for this discussion:
- the visual drawing of the map, which is stopped in time since the infrastructure migration - august? october? last year. Some weeks ago it got a layer of cream color on top.

- the routing algorithm, which follows the exact same path as the current client tiles, meaning it can draw a line completely unrelated to the livemap drawing. For this we (I) knew that we could guess where to click on a new/changed road to define the start and stop point.

- now the new feature is that changes on the editor reflect automatically on live map. wow. I've double checked this one. Created a new segment on the editor, gave it a specific name, and could select it on live map. Unfortunately this is irrelevant because the routing algorithm doesn't know about such road and won't create a route through it.

I'm mentioning this because even without the updated visuals, if it were true that both the new segments and the routing would be instantly up-to-date, it would be amazing to live test those small detail adjustments we do for keep/turn instructions or roundabout angles. :D
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:18 pm

sketch wrote:
zappee wrote:Well, that's because they didn't have any service like YT before. Waze is a direct competitor to Google Maps.

They did and do. It's called Google Video, now Google Videos.

Google Video is not the same kind of "platform" that YouTube is, rather functioning principally as a search engine for videos hosted elsewhere, but the same could be said of Google Maps. Google Maps uses mostly third-party map data and functions as an agent which can search and give directions using that map data. Waze, like YouTube, is its own platform, with its own content. Google Maps has its own routing engine, yeah, but Google Video has its own video player, too.


Am I getting old enough to forget stuff already? As I recall, Google Videos was exactly the same as YouTube - a platform for people to upload their own videos. If that platform provided additional searching capabilities into other systems, I don't recall it. It was a direct match with YouTube, with the difference that everybody used YouTube and almost none used Google Videos. It was a kind of Facebook vs. Google Plus - they are the same at the core, but people only care about one of them.

Google Maps is a broad name for a lot of stuff. There are the satellite images (3rd party), the street view (google), the maps road tiles (owned already by google? or still a big merge between all the providers, as we can see e.g. on Google Earth's footer?), the google *maps* client (the original iPhone client or the mobile web version), which just shows the maps, the google navigation (the new iPhone client, and the mobile web if clicked properly), where the navigation competes with waze, but also provides bus and pedestrian routing, plus all the variations of 3d via earth or the new maps, and on top of that there are the POI information, from google and 3rd parties, where gearth client can clearly show all the data feeds available and from whom.

So I see two things in direct competition - the road tiles and the car navigation client. Maybe plus the traffic information that I'm not sure where google is getting from, themselves or just 3rd parties.

Back to YouTube, it was clear that YouTube would remain as is and Google Videos would die. The amount of traffic and users was abysmal. We can't say the same about Waze and Google Navigation, hence the big question of what will happen this time.
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:02 pm

zappee wrote:
jeffcarp wrote:If the resulting service in the end has all of the great aspects of the service that was bought, what difference does it make what the service is called?


Difference is that Google will prioritize Android with Google Maps and not iOS/WP.

Isn't Google Maps app better on iOS than on Android itself? :mrgreen:


zappee wrote:
davipt wrote:So I see two things in direct competition - the road tiles and the car navigation client. Maybe plus the traffic information that I'm not sure where google is getting from, themselves or just 3rd parties.

Back to YouTube, it was clear that YouTube would remain as is and Google Videos would die. The amount of traffic and users was abysmal. We can't say the same about Waze and Google Navigation, hence the big question of what will happen this time.


So you think Google will close down Maps navigation and keep Waze?
That's not really realistic.


I have my own opinion based on my own country which obviously I can't scale for the whole service - google maps has become worse and worse every year. Not just multi-year outdated data. Worse. Wrong. Providing huge-ticket and illegal routes. Can't take me home-work on a perfectly normal trip. That kind of stuff. So I would really like to see Google pushing Waze maps as the primary source, and use the existing data - their own, and whenever possible the data they license when possible - to help improve waze. My feeling is that today we can't use the street data from google to populate waze (in an automatic way, etc etc.) because that data is a mixture of several data sources, with different licenses that forbids google from giving it to waze, even today that they are together. If google could provide a separate layer of street data licensed for use on Waze, then it would be perfect. Something like you create a road and the input box states "did you mean street xyz?" :D
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby davipt » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:15 pm

Yeah just a troll bitching about what he doesn't understand about. It's good to ear what people think and feel, even if unjustified, because in the end the thinking and feeling may even be right even though for the wrong particular reasons.
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby deadbeef » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:35 pm

I already get annoyed by the Taco Bell ads pushed to my phone, I can only imagine what annoyances are in store for us.
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Re: Waze joins Google

Postby deeggo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:51 pm

Congratulations to all of you, especially you Ehud. It must be incredibly rewarding to see your idea grow from startup to this point. I can only imagine. I guess the champagne has popped in Israel!

For us users-editors I guess it was inevitable. I prefer Google over Facebook like many others here. Nobody can blame you for cashing in on the right moment. I hope the fun stays for us or even grows, under that big Google umbrella.

Like the others I'm very curious what this all will bring, from the positive and negative side. Future will tell, I just hope you'll keep us informed.
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