Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby argus-cronos » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:44 pm

Some more will follow for sure.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:18 pm

shirlig wrote:Hi guys,

We have just removed from the map all the speed cameras in Denmark, Switzerland and Germany due to it being illegal in these countries.

we are examining ways to make Waze compliant with French law as well

Thanks,

Shirli


Shirli,

it would have been nice to discuss this with the community in these countries before taking such drastic measures. Waze has just established channeled community communications.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby argus-cronos » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:10 pm

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby vince1612 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:06 am

In Switzerland we have several GPS apps that can warn about FIXED radars, not always mobile, such as GPS Navigation 2 (aka Skobbler), Swiss Traffic by mogo.ch, iSpeedCam or Trapster, to name a few. The word "radar" gives more than 1000 results in the Apple app store for iPhone. As far as I know they didn't disable their radar feature.

So why does Waze have to remove this feature above others ? Did you get a legal complaint from any government ?

I don't know about Denmark or Germany but in Switzerland with a bit of luck and direct democracy we could try making it legal :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ( :roll: dreaming)
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby shmupi » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:47 am

Tilonius wrote:This decision was a big mistake.
The user should decide whether to use it.
We will lose many users. :cry:


+1

:cry:

How could you guys delete all the hard work that we have done in mapping those cameras ???

Have you checked other options before deleting them ?

It seems that the statement that Google / Waze will work even closer to the community was an empty one !

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby neo777 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:22 am

Tilonius wrote:This decision was a big mistake.
The user should decide whether to use it.
We will lose many users. :cry:

+1
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby ccdmas » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:32 am

top_gun_de wrote:
shirlig wrote:Hi guys,

We have just removed from the map all the speed cameras in Denmark, Switzerland and Germany due to it being illegal in these countries.

we are examining ways to make Waze compliant with French law as well

Thanks,

Shirli


Shirli,

it would have been nice to discuss this with the community in these countries before taking such drastic measures. Waze has just established channeled community communications.

Best regards,

Detlev


+1 for the comment on talking to the community first.

Especially considering, that as for Germany at least, that decision is based on wrong information. The device/app itself is *NOT* illegal (which it is in switzerland for instance), and basically *every* navigational system sold in Germany has that function (TomTom, Navigon, you name them) in Germany. It is illegal (in theory) to use it, but AFAIK that's true for a huge list of countries.


DIsabling it in Waze for Germany is a *HUGE* mistake, and should be undone ASAP.

BTW, you forgot France. It *IS* illegal there (the device, not the usage), and also Liechtenstein. But Germany is just plain wrong.

CU,
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:01 am

davipt wrote:I've always been curious how could waze have kept the cameras in Germany when everybody there knows it's illegal to even have software to inform about cameras installed. I almost had my scary moment when I had trapster installed and the police was quite curious about my old nokia device on the dashboard, but was lucky they were just hunting people drunk from the bars and didn't bother me.

As far as I can remember, for completeness, radar detection hardware is strictly forbidden, and software that announces cameras, fixed or mobile, are also forbidden in some countries - germany being the case - and over there, according to my rough german law translation and the comments from my friends, even having the software installed but not being open could be used against us. I may be wrong on this, I've been back to Portugal for two years now.

I'm mentioning this because there may be the case that removing the cameras from the map is not enough. There may be a need to even remove the camera report and maybe even the police report from the client, but I'm sure some native German can explain this better...


Yes, davipt, some natives might explain this better. In Germany, there is a law against having a working device in your vehicle during a drive, while the possession of such a device is entirely legal, likewise the manufacturing, distribution and sale of such hard- or software are compliant with the law. Every manufacturer of PNA-devices or navigation software offers this as a part of their software, either included for free or as a premium service.

There are even dedicated traffic warner applications in the official app-stores of Apple and Google.

There was separate legislation against the possession of radar receivers, but this was part of the regulations of the use of radio frequencies and is to my best knowledge obsolete since several years.

Moreover, the german law differentiates between a crime (like hitting someone in the face) ("Straftat") and an administrative offense (like exceeding your parking time) ("Ordnungswidrigkeit"), and the usage of such a device is just an offense, not a crime.

There has even been a discussion on federal level about this special law - several states pledged to lift the ban entirely, as it is completely useless - there has not even been one known case where someone was punished for this offense. Herr Ramsauer (Minister of transportation) has decided not yet to see the light on this matter.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:15 am

shirlig wrote:Hi guys,

We have just removed from the map all the speed cameras in Denmark, Switzerland and Germany due to it being illegal in these countries.


Shirli,

as the german coordinator, I write this on behalf of the german community, and I am sure that the communities from switzerland and denmark will agree:

Please, reconsider your decision. It is ill-advised on the legal side, and it will hurt Waze's position on the navigation market.

Every navigation software offers speed-cameras or comparable services. Navigon/Garmin decided to warn of "Unfallschwerpunkte" (locations with high potential of accident), and use the existence of a speed cam as an indicator for such locations.

Since every other app offers this service either free or as a premium service, I am sure that the removal of traffic cam warnings will hurt the product in the markets of germany, switzerland and denmark. These three countries are relatively wealthy with a population that is both attractive in direct sales revenue and advertising revenue.

Besides, Waze thrives on the community's effort to improve the maps and services. This surprising "fait-accompli" is a sure way to hurt the community and reduce its contribution.

Best regards,

Detlev
Last edited by top_gun_de on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby ofirbl » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:25 am

Tilonius wrote:This decision was a big mistake.
The user should decide whether to use it.
We will lose many users. :cry:

+10
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