Post by ccdmas
top_gun_de wrote:
shirlig wrote:Hi guys,

We have just removed from the map all the speed cameras in Denmark, Switzerland and Germany due to it being illegal in these countries.

we are examining ways to make Waze compliant with French law as well

Thanks,

Shirli
Shirli,

it would have been nice to discuss this with the community in these countries before taking such drastic measures. Waze has just established channeled community communications.

Best regards,

Detlev
+1 for the comment on talking to the community first.

Especially considering, that as for Germany at least, that decision is based on wrong information. The device/app itself is *NOT* illegal (which it is in switzerland for instance), and basically *every* navigational system sold in Germany has that function (TomTom, Navigon, you name them) in Germany. It is illegal (in theory) to use it, but AFAIK that's true for a huge list of countries.


DIsabling it in Waze for Germany is a *HUGE* mistake, and should be undone ASAP.

BTW, you forgot France. It *IS* illegal there (the device, not the usage), and also Liechtenstein. But Germany is just plain wrong.

CU,
Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post by ccdmas
Just for the records, let's keep the facts straight guys. Neither TomTom nor Navigon offer any type of warning in Switzerland, so there definitely is a legal issue there.
In Germany however, bot DO offer speedcam alerts. The details have been given here, there is absolutely no legal problem FOR WAZE in Germany.

Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post by ccdmas
McFloyd wrote:
Art. 98a1 SVG

Warnungen vor Verkehrskontrollen


1 Mit Busse wird bestraft, wer:

a.
Geräte oder Vorrichtungen, die dazu bestimmt sind, die behördliche Kontrolle des Strassenverkehrs zu erschweren, zu stören oder unwirksam zu machen, einführt, anpreist, weitergibt, verkauft, sonst wie abgibt oder überlässt, in Fahrzeuge einbaut, darin mitführt, an ihnen befestigt oder in irgendeiner Form verwendet;


Waze hat leider keinen Spielraum... Vielleicht müssten wir halt eine Volsinitiative lancieren, die erlaubt, sich vor Radarfallen warnen zu lassen...
Yes, and there's the *big* difference compeared to germany. In switzerland, the device or application itself is illegal to start with, and it's forbidden by law to develop, sell, or make available such devices.

It is *totally* different in Germany. The device itself and to sell or offer it is *perfectly* legal. What is not allowed is to *use* it *while driving*. That said, there is no reason for Waze (or any other manufacturer of such systems) not to offer it. It's totally up to the driver (and as of today, not a single driver in germany ever has received a ticket for using such a device).

So I ask again: Waze, woukd you reconsider that decision for Germany *please*?

CU,
Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post by Camou893
Colonel667 wrote:Of course it's illegal here in Germany.
Read the law again. It's "of course" not clear, that it is illegal.
Camou893
Area Manager
Area Manager
Posts: 525
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 198 times
https://s.waze.tools/s0150.pnghttps://www.ib-ziessow.de/images/waze/rip_tsd66.png
OSM Speed-Tracker | waze Aufkleber | Rettungsgasse
AM BW: RW FDS HOR BL HCH TUT VS & AM BW/Bayern: SHA CR RH HIP AIC FDB UL | Wazeing with Huawei P20 / Android 9.0
Fährst du noch oder Wazet du schon?

Post by Camou893
davipt wrote:- if it's clear that it's illegal for the driver to use the feature of radar DB POI while driving on a public road in Germany
It even isn't illegal for the driver. Because the law was never about Navigation software or Mobile phones. The law is about those old Devices, that could receive the laser-rays and warn when they "see" the laser.

No police-man would be allowed to examine your mobile-phone when he stops you.
Camou893
Area Manager
Area Manager
Posts: 525
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 198 times
https://s.waze.tools/s0150.pnghttps://www.ib-ziessow.de/images/waze/rip_tsd66.png
OSM Speed-Tracker | waze Aufkleber | Rettungsgasse
AM BW: RW FDS HOR BL HCH TUT VS & AM BW/Bayern: SHA CR RH HIP AIC FDB UL | Wazeing with Huawei P20 / Android 9.0
Fährst du noch oder Wazet du schon?

Post by cloud-operator
Without speed cameras I'll move to iCoyote...
sorry...
cloud-operator
Posts: 3
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by ccdmas
blackb0x wrote: what i don't understand: reporting mobile speed cams still is possible.
Yeah, that's pretty ironic. *If* there really would be a legal issue here, it would still exist unchanged.
and another thing: german laws on speed cams have been the same for a very long time now. how come waze came up with that right now?
Obviously through Google. Consider there *really* would be a legal issue for the manufacturer of the app. It would have never affected Waze, as Waze as no official office in the EU, let alone the individual countries. Even if they would break german (or swiss) law, nobody could do anything against them.

Totally different story now they're part of google. Google *has* official offices in the EU and in Switzerland, so immediately after the aqcuisition, there now could be legal action against them.

CU,
Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post by CBenson
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:If, after study and review, they determine cameras can be put back legally, they will. We just have to wait. Working with lawyers can take months just to figure out the simplest of things sometimes.
On the other hand, they could just decide they have other things to do while we wait. The problem is that some of us might have faith that there is study and review going on. Others may not have so much faith. This communication problem is one that waze could easily solve.
CBenson
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 10330
Has thanked: 646 times
Been thanked: 1844 times
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Atlantic, US
Verizon, Nexus 6, Android 6.0.1, Waze 4.7.0.902

Post by ccdmas
milkyway35 wrote:Report police is not only for mobile speedcams.
Irrelevant. Waze is not "only" for speepcams either. The question is what is it's main function, not what it's called. Otherwise I start selling radar detection devices that can also open beer cans.

So, if waze *believes* there's a legal issue with its speedcam function, then that exactly same issue *would* exist with the Police function. They removed one, hurt the community, but did not remove the other one, e.g they didn't change a single thing about the legal issue they believe they attacked.

CU,
Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Post by ccdmas
Kuhlkatz wrote: You guys also seem to forget that Waze 'stores' your drives, which other navigation systems do not. How long would it be before the operators of mobile or fixed cameras gets the bright idea to sue Waze or Google as the parent company for 'loss of income' due to the camera warnings.
Not sure about your country, but over here, forever. That would be against the constitution, and violate probably about a dozen EU privacy laws.

But we should really try to stay on topic here please.

CU,
Massimo
ccdmas
Posts: 1440
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 207 times