Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Mynios » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:56 pm

Alan you made my day!

draft wrote:Terms of use
...
Waze is allowed to change things if the feel something could be illegal.
...


Perhaps they should ask a lawyer. ;) Better someone who could explain where the difference is between France, Switzerland, Denmark and Germany. Not based on feelings.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:00 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
masju wrote:Shirli:
How many posts do we have to write until you revoke the decision?
It's not okay to let the community do all the work and than delete this function without any discussion :( .

Waze has already stated their position and it's not based on community sentiment on this issue. They feel it is a legal problem and not subject to community outcry. Therefore, if they determine a reversion can be done legally/safely, I'm sure they will and will let us know. Until then, there's no point in them coming back to this thread to re-post what's already been posted.


Alan, as much as I respect your opinion on other topics in the forum, I can not agree to your opinion on this topic. Waze does not disclose any backgroundinformation about their decision, and German lawyers agree that a manufacturer can provide the service without breaking national law. Consequentially, Garmin and TomTom, the world market leaders, sell this service without any legal issues in Germany.

Shirli has asked for information about the law in Germany, and Jonypony (who left Waze, I know) has posted that Waze is still considering their further actions. Up to now, Waze has had more than a month to find a lawyer who knows the German law better than their current advisor, and I can quite well understand that the community is asking for answers.

While the tone of some comments might be lacking, it is the tone, not the intention behind these comments that is lacking.

I know that "It's the law" is a common reason for lots of things in the US, but in this case, the community has every reason to believe that Waze reads the law incorrectly, and that remediation of this error has already taken long enough.

Forgive me for my long rant, but we have already lost valuable community contributors from the resulting frustration. I am looking forward to meeting you in Israel, and will gladly discuss this over a beer. The current outview for the German community is quite rotten.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby DFFF00 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 pm

well said, Detlev.

people's tone may be rude sometimes, even mine (i apologize for that). but i think the rude comments just show the frustration of the community because of the speed cam situation.

let's face the truth:
there are quite a few navigation systems out there. people who decided to use waze did so, because waze gives people what it afvertizes with: traffic infoemation, alternative routes, speed cams.
and after using it for a while, peopke saw that it's good and wanted to give something back by editing maps and stuff.

now, this might not be the case with the US, but in germany, there are a lot of speed limits that just don't make sense, or chance 3 times within 100 meters. now, it's true that just driving carefully saves you from getting speeding tickets, but nothing can save you from such chaotic speed limits, especially if you're tired or in a hurry or have little children in the back, spilling something.

but that's just the second reason. the first reason is: it's not forbidden in germany.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby milkyway35 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:03 pm

I think, What you seem forgotten is the main core of waze is GPS Nav and not speedcams alerts.

Waze is not iCoyote and iCoyote is not Waze

Speedcams is just an option in Waze

Waze say they are looking for a legal workaround. Just be patient, they're working on it.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:07 pm

You don't need a workaround when you are not breaking the law at all. It is quite frustrating to repeat this so often...


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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:13 pm

top_gun_de wrote:You don't need a workaround when you are not breaking the law at all. It is quite frustrating to repeat this so often...

We understand. But what many users on this thread don't understand is that Waze must come to this realization/understanding on their own. It's their company and while you and others may believe (know) it is foolish, what they have done, Waze has to make this decision based on legal advice from their legal team or consultants. If, after study and review, they determine cameras can be put back legally, they will. We just have to wait. Working with lawyers can take months just to figure out the simplest of things sometimes.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Mynios » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:20 pm

I think Waze should thank these users. Best example are restaurants. Complaining customers are like gold and customers they never will come back with any notice could be your dead.


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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby popel22 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:30 pm

milkyway35 wrote:I think, What you seem forgotten is the main core of waze is GPS Nav and not speedcams alerts.

Waze is not iCoyote and iCoyote is not Waze

Speedcams is just an option in Waze

Waze say they are looking for a legal workaround. Just be patient, they're working on it.


What the HQ seem forgotten is that the main core of waze is its community and its just an option that we all spend time editing the maps.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby DFFF00 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:37 pm

if waze was just a gps nav, why would spend people years editing maps to bring waze to the point where it's nearly as good as google nav? we all could just use google nav and not spend nights editing stuff in waze.
all the people using it and editing did so because waze gave them what they needed.
now that speed cams are gone, many lose what was a big feature of waze.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:24 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
top_gun_de wrote:You don't need a workaround when you are not breaking the law at all. It is quite frustrating to repeat this so often...

We understand. But what many users on this thread don't understand is that Waze must come to this realization/understanding on their own. It's their company and while you and others may believe (know) it is foolish, what they have done, Waze has to make this decision based on legal advice from their legal team or consultants. If, after study and review, they determine cameras can be put back legally, they will. We just have to wait. Working with lawyers can take months just to figure out the simplest of things sometimes.


There are even two answers to your opinion:

1. There is a difference between a normal company with paying customers and paid suppliers and a company that builds on Web 2.0-effects as a main factor in their manufacturing process.

2. Waze should understand that the jurisdictional systems and codes in most countries are quite different. The term "international law" is something that keeps amazing me, as there is nothing binding between judicial systems except some international treaties from WTO and the like with limited scope. If they need counsel on the German law system, there are quite a lot of domestic lawyers, and there is even a formalized specialization for the matters at hand. There are also a lot of firms that specialise in international clients, and give counsel on the specifics in Germany. As soon as I realise that Waze has finally gotten counsel from such a company that specializes in "Verkehrsrecht", I am confident that matters are handled in the appropriate way.

Until then, I will stubbornly stand on my little soap box in Speaker's Corner, thank you very much :-)

Best regards,

Detlev
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