Post by top_gun_de
I am sure that Argus addressed McFloyd ;-)
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Post by top_gun_de
If you follow the thread, there is a lot of informaton on the local law - if Waze management had a lawyer for their initial action, they better find one with knowledge of the local law and law systems of the respective countries who can give them options.

This part has been discussed a lot - among the community.

Waze staff has obviously chosen not to answer the questions from the community, it has been five days since the last posting. Questions about the further plan of action (about proposals for further communication and about the reasoning behind the undefined "legal issues") have been unanswered.

Waze has defined a way of structured communication in february, but there is no communication along these channels.

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Detlev


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Last edited by top_gun_de on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by top_gun_de
Davipt,

You are not a lawyer, and know the german law and law system only from second source.

So, please, stop deciding what is in the best interest of the German community and the German drivers. Garmin and Tomtom as the market leaders keep selling their a.. off with navigation solutions which include "hazard areas" free or as a premium, with noone questioning their ethics.

The German community keeps offering evidence that a) they want this feature, b) there are use cases where the usage is entirely legal, c) to the best knowledge of the ADAC, there was not even one driver fined for the usage of such software, d) Waze as the manufacturer is not breaking any law.

Thanks for your opinion, but the German community has chosen a different point of view on this matter.

Currently, TomTom and Garmin Navigator sell well in Germany, and the removal of the hazard warning will make life even harder in the German market.

Best regards,

Detlev

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Post by top_gun_de
McFloyd, your argumentation is dangerously close to the motto "If you have nothing to hide, why do you need privacy" that is so famous in some undemocratic countries. The community wants to make their own choice.

Besides, it might be illegal and even criminal to call someone a criminal without him being convicted. At least in Germany, speeding is not a crime, but an administrative offence. So calling someone publicly a criminal for driving 54 instead of 50km/h is definitely wrong, and it might even be considered a libel by a judge, resulting in compensation and fine.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Last edited by top_gun_de on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by top_gun_de
There are "hazard areas", and there are "hazard areas".

The ones in France which are defined by the government seem to be a bad joke.

In other countries, there is no legislation and no binding definition of these zones, so a manufacturer may decide to warn of hazards wherever it seems suitable. Navigon chose to define them by the location and direction of a traffic cam - since the local government claims to build them only in hazardous areas, it's not a bad idea to follow their judgement and warn of hazards just where the danger justifies the use of a traffic cam. The warning distance depends on your speed of advance so you have enough time to reduce your speed to a safe level ;)

Waze chose to do something similar by defining "police surveillance" as the category under which to report mobile speed cams.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Post by top_gun_de
There are better ways, as I described: Do like before, just name it differently, by defining just the surveilled spot as an area ;)

I don't know the way the french government places speed cams, but in Germany, using an extended area in cities would result in a continuous warning.
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Post by top_gun_de
As of today, the traffic cams are missing in the client... Time to decide between Waze together with blitzer.de-app or Garmin navigator (all-in-one, and even free for customers of Telekom Germany).

Best regards,

Detlev

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Post by top_gun_de
Nobody gains from further crippling of the services...
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Post by top_gun_de
Besides, Waze might really have legal issues if they promise features which they deliberately choose not to deliver. In Germany, this is called "Vorsatz" (on purpose)and can to my best knowledge not be excempted by means of a disclaimer. There are even two sides affected: Waze's users as customers, and the competitors on the navigation market who don't advertise features they don't offer. ("Unlauterer Wettbewerb")

But, I am not a lawyer, so my legal concerns don't count much to Waze ;)

Best regards,

Detlev
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Last edited by top_gun_de on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by top_gun_de
Hello Shirli,

Waze has had more than a month to find better-qualified legal counsel for the respective countries and to rethink their decision.

When may we expect any news on this issue?

Best regards,

Detlev
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