HOV "Lanes"

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HOV "Lanes"

Postby jemay » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:14 pm

The HOV wiki entry
I have not read anywhere how to handle HOV lanes that have no define entrance and exit. We have one county that has changed a few of their HOV lanes to allow you to enter or exit when every you want. And other states allowing entrance and exit as long as there is no yellow line... It has been pointed out to me that the wiki states we need to map the HOV lanes.

The HOV lanes that are mapped in southern California are ones with defined entrance and exits. Once everything is setup (TBTL, routing, client) then those lanes would (should) work...

So if a HOV lanes is "free will", then there is no easy way to have the routing engine to work (once it is turned on) for the HOV. I don't think we want to be putting in "ramps" every ??? (100 feet, 1/2 mile, mile, or ???(whatever).) One resolution is a "Lane indicator" or something for the segment to indicate that one of the lanes is HOV (left, right, ???). But we all know that is FAR from now....

I bring this up to help with the wiki understanding of what needs to be mapped for HOV lanes. The HOV wiki page should state that no HOV lanes should be mapped if it is a "free will" lane.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby Daknife » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:37 am

AndyPoms wrote:The lane guidance in other GPS units is done essentially by segment - it doesn't actually know what lane you are in, but information about the number lanes on the segment you are on.

Besides at a 95% confidence level, civilian GPS is only accurate to 7.8 meters (just over 25 feet)(1) - and minimum lane width in the US is 12 feet (2) so 25 feet covers two full lanes on either side.

Not entirely true, more devices available today are compliant with the WAAS system for which the above cited stats are the set minimum requirements to be considered compliant with the WAAS specification, but in testing by the NTSB it has proven to consistently provide an accuracy of 1m (3ft, 3 in) or less laterally, accurate enough even for GPS based flights and landings. Many older handset GPS's are not WAAS standard but more and more of the newer ones are are, and external receivers such as the Dual150 Bluetooth receiver are WAAS compliant. This standard is considered sufficiently accurate for aviation uses, as that was the primary reason for the creation of the WAAS system. And since Selective Availability was turned off by the DOD in 2000, even Just plain vanilla GPS measures to greater accuracy than the 7.8 meter minimum requirement for WAAS. Vanilla GPS measures at an accuracy of 2.5 meters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby CBenson » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:55 pm

But given enough data, you don't have to every car plotted in the correct lane to extract some speed difference data from the lanes. I suppose volume discrepancies could overwhelm speed discrepancies. But I would not take the inability of consumer GPS receivers to place a car within a lane width to mean that plotting HOV lanes would be useless. Furthermore, if there is a significant speed difference say between 55-65 mph in the HOV lane and 35-45 in the regular lanes, then we can likely assume that clients that have self identified as HOV are in the HOV lanes. Thus, I continue to think that once a user can self identify as an HOV vehicle, then this topic should be revisited.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby CBenson » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:25 am

And even if the resolution is low enough to place individual cars reliably in the HOV or regular, if the speeds are different, a speed diference should show in the aggregate data. I'm not mapping the HOV lanes either, but once we can indicate HOV status in the client, then I think this topic will need serious reconsideration.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby bgodette » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:53 pm

sketch wrote:This will probably affect the "current traffic" speed, yes, but it shouldn't affect historical data, provided that the GPS traces are accurate enough. That's done with later analysis once your drives are uploaded.
I agree that's the likely case. The client has to operate on the assumption you're following its directions as accuracy isn't yet high enough across all platforms to conclusively determine you've actually deviated two lanes width without a lot of false positives.

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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby bgodette » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:30 am

Non separated HOV/HOT lanes should remain unmapped and left until we get some of the additional attributes from Google. This will include number of lanes and hopefully you can specify how many lanes are HOV/HOT. That combined with car profile in the client can separate out average speed data between HOV/HOT and regular lanes.

Or we wait 5 years for all our phones to have GPS chips that use the three (four?) major GPS systems at the same time for sub 1 meter accuracy. :ugeek:
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Re: HOV

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:45 pm

jwriddle wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:The lane guidance in other GPS units is done essentially by segment - it doesn't actually know what lane you are in, but information about the number lanes on the segment you are on.

Besides at a 95% confidence level, civilian GPS is only accurate to 7.8 meters (just over 25 feet)(1) - and minimum lane width in the US is 12 feet (2) so 25 feet covers two full lanes on either side.


You're a walking Wiki of stats. :o
I looked it all up & I cited my sources (the little numbers in parentheses).
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:16 am

The lane guidance in other GPS units is done essentially by segment - it doesn't actually know what lane you are in, but information about the number lanes on the segment you are on.

Besides at a 95% confidence level, civilian GPS is only accurate to 7.8 meters (just over 25 feet)(1) - and minimum lane width in the US is 12 feet (2) so 25 feet covers two full lanes on either side.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby AndyPoms » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:10 am

If it's just a lane and not a separate road, the GPS system (not Waze, but the actual GPS system) doesn't have the resolution to know which lane you are in, so it won't be able to tell if you are in the HOV lane or not.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby AndyPoms » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:20 pm

Well, it's not a restricted road then, it's a restricted lane.

In my opinion, HOV/HOT "lanes" that are separated from the main road should be mapped, those that are just separate lanes (with out dedicated entrances & exits) should not.
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