HOV "Lanes"

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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby sketch » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:39 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:When being routed in the main lane and I am in the HOT lane, Waze updates my ETA live with earlier times in 1 minute increments (does not build up and suddenly change my ETA with a message). I assume this is altering the main lane timing for the non HOT/HOV drivers. Since Waze is able to assess I am in the HOV/HOT lane when I first start navigating, I would think it could ask me if I am in that alternate lane after being there for more than a few miles. I also assume that since Waze tracks actual vehicle paths even though it displays me in the main lane, it hopefully is not adding my faster time to the main lane average speed.

This will probably affect the "current traffic" speed, yes, but it shouldn't affect historical data, provided that the GPS traces are accurate enough. That's done with later analysis once your drives are uploaded.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby russblau » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:22 pm

I'm sure AndyPoms is right, but even without any stats, all you have to do is look at the GPS layer in the WME and you can see how wildly inaccurate some GPS readings are. If memory serves me right, I believe it takes 20-30 minutes of continuous operations for a GPS unit to reach full accuracy, too, so we are unlikely ever to approach "lane-level" accuracy for users with relatively short commutes.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:08 am

When I first joined we added the ~10 mile segment of I-680 S (Sunol to Milpitas) with an HOV/HOT lane. I drive it every day and have a Plug-in Prius so I can use it as a solo driver. The lane is not physically separated, but there is a double white line (illegal to cross) and various entrances and exits along the 10 miles.

I have played with the GPS sensitivity. Generally speaking with the way we have it mapped the freeway is wide enough in most areas to give about 2 lanes of separation. If I start my route before I am in the lane, Waze keeps me in the main lane while I cruise down the HOT lane (up here that lane is typically at the limit at all times). If I shut down Waze and restart it while I am in the lane, it usually shows me in the HOT lane and gives me the proper HOT exit points to get off the freeway.

When being routed in the main lane and I am in the HOT lane, Waze updates my ETA live with earlier times in 1 minute increments (does not build up and suddenly change my ETA with a message). I assume this is altering the main lane timing for the non HOT/HOV drivers. Since Waze is able to assess I am in the HOV/HOT lane when I first start navigating, I would think it could ask me if I am in that alternate lane after being there for more than a few miles. I also assume that since Waze tracks actual vehicle paths even though it displays me in the main lane, it hopefully is not adding my faster time to the main lane average speed.

If anyone takes a look at this segment of I-680 S note that I recently found out the way we set it up as a freeway lane is not what was proposed so we still have to update that.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby jwriddle » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:54 pm

AndyPoms wrote:
jwriddle wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:The lane guidance in other GPS units is done essentially by segment - it doesn't actually know what lane you are in, but information about the number lanes on the segment you are on.

Besides at a 95% confidence level, civilian GPS is only accurate to 7.8 meters (just over 25 feet)(1) - and minimum lane width in the US is 12 feet (2) so 25 feet covers two full lanes on either side.


You're a walking Wiki of stats. :o
I looked it all up & I cited my sources (the little numbers in parentheses).


Now you're just showing off. ;)


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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby jwriddle » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:32 pm

AndyPoms wrote:The lane guidance in other GPS units is done essentially by segment - it doesn't actually know what lane you are in, but information about the number lanes on the segment you are on.

Besides at a 95% confidence level, civilian GPS is only accurate to 7.8 meters (just over 25 feet)(1) - and minimum lane width in the US is 12 feet (2) so 25 feet covers two full lanes on either side.


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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby JimB50 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:16 am

Andy is right!!

@Russblau: the high end accuracy is obtained after 20-30 minutes that the GPS is motionless and only for that specific location. Once the GPS is in motion the accuracy drops dramatically.

The accuracy depends on the combination of the quality of the antenna and the radio. It comes down to how many satellites can be received simultaneously, the processor speed and how long the system stays motionless. Not exactly the best concept for a GPS app using a smartphone GPS. :o

That said, if Waze can keep track of who is on the HOV/HOT lane then it should be relatively straightforward, maybe not easy.

In response to CBenson's comments, another place where there are speed differences is at stop lights where the wait time is dependent on the direction taken after the light. It becomes even more fun when this intersection is at a freeway exit. Then there can be a multitude of potential directions. With different signal timing and right turn on red.

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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby JimB50 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:21 am

Because in DC during morning rush hours, the HOV lane was always moving. Couldn't say that about the other lanes. :<)
I posted my previous question because I'm interested in understanding how Waze handles situations where there is a backup in one lane and free flowing traffic in another lane. Does the road configuration or level have anything to do with how the routing algorithm differentiates between these two different traffic patterns on the same road?

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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby JimB50 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:08 am

How will Waze know that the HOV lane that is not a separate road does not have the same traffic delays, and should give a different ETA?

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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby jemay » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:06 pm

jemay wrote:The HOV wiki entry
...
I bring this up to help with the wiki understanding of what needs to be mapped for HOV lanes. The HOV wiki page should state that no HOV lanes should be mapped if it is a "free will" lane.


Wiki Page wrote:As an interim measure, these lanes should be added to the map as separate roads, with the road type as Parking Lot Roads. This means that if you are not currently in one of these lanes the routing will avoid it, but if you choose to get into the lane, the routing will work correctly.

I think something like this needs to be added.

... will work correctly. This should only be applied to dedicated lanes that have exit and entry points.
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Re: HOV "Lanes"

Postby jemay » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:28 am

Currently, everybody gets averaged out.

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