Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:47 pm

sketch wrote:A literal 5 meter driveway can't hold a regular cab Ford F-150, at 5.41 m the shortest version of the best-selling vehicle in America. It can barely hold the best selling car, the 4.81 m Toyota Camry.


Sadly, an F-150 does not fit in many of the driveways in my neighborhood. And people with tilt-up garage doors have even Camry-sized cars impeding the sidewalk.

sketch wrote:Including it in the standards as "Don't map driveways less than 5m long" will be interpreted as "Consider mapping driveways longer than 5m", which is way not optimal.

"Easy to get consensus" is not a legitimate reason to write a rule a certain way.


Perhaps. It just seems like there are some elite level users here who might support, while other users at the same level will veto driveways based on a personal preference that is a "rule" in their mind but not defacto. I personally agree a 10M driveway is too short to need mapping. So maybe it should be "do NOT map driveways less than 10M that serve a single address" and add a guideline of "Avoid mapping driveways less than 100M that serve a single address". Should the first rule be "Do NOT map a driveway just because there is no rule against it."?
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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:45 pm

russblau wrote:Really? 10 meters is still a pretty trivial driveway. ... [5 meters is] a ridiculously low cutoff.


I'm not disputing that. If 5 meters is ridiculously low, then it should be easy to get unanimous consensus to create an actual rule. If everyone agrees "10 meters" regardless of the number of addresses should never be mapped, great. I don't think I've been around long enough to cast a vote, but I have done enough editing and driving and using competing sat/nav to offer an opinion.

By the way, when I said "5 meters", I was thinking of physical distance, not virtual. The length of your driveway is the length from the edge of the street or public right-of-way, not the length from the center line of the road. So a literal 5 meter driveway, like my own, can not hold 2 cars parked end-to-end. At 5 meters, there is no room for confusion. If you've reached the closest spot on my street to my house, you could not possibly be confused about how to get to the right house. Having my driveway on the map can NOT benefit any aspect of Waze and NOT have my driveway would not harm Waze. It would indeed be ridiculous and I think everyone would agree. Even with multiple addresses off a 5 meter driveway, getting lost in the car is virtually impossible.
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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:40 pm

jondrush wrote:
1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property.

I think the minimum should be 10m. I altered some other comments for grammar and split 2a into two topics to discuss separately.


If you change "do NOT map driveways less than 5 meters long that serve a single address or property" to "do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property", that would seem to lower the consensus and change it from an agreed rule to a general guideline.

Does anyone disagree that a driveway with parameters; 1) less than 5 meters and 2) serving a single address, should never be mapped?

Even if everyone agrees with the 10 meter change, by inserting the "or", it implies a driveway serving a single address should never be mapped regardless of length. Which would further erode consensus on such a rule. With the combined parameters as a rule, it's easy to tell an editor to stop adding every residential driveway along every street.

Perhaps it could be a rule just to say "5 meters" regardless of how many addresses are served by that driveway, and "10 meter/single address" is a rule of its own.
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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:03 pm

sketch wrote:
AndyPoms wrote:
sketch wrote:The point is that we're making a clear set of rules, rather than allowing each editor to make their own. And drive-thrus are mapped, just not as private roads, so they're not under the ambit of our discussion.

Drive-thrus fall under the "Small Parking Lots" clause and are NOT mapped.
Which is changing. Read Alan's post above. We're discussing updating the Wiki to standards that actually work. Lets not use outdated existing Wiki thinking in our discussion.


So, to avoid confusion, should "Do NOT map commercial "drive-thrus"" be changed to ""Drive-thrus" - Refer to guidelines for "Parking Lot Roads""? In my opinion, and since such links are a key strength of Wikis, it's better to refer people to the appropriate guidance if they thought a drive-thru might be a "driveway" and apparently missing.
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Re: Driveways

Postby JJLatWayz » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:34 pm

Are there rules with which no one disagrees? Maybe the initial page here can be broken down into agreement groups so they no longer need discussion or can be prioritized for further debate?

1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
a. Map driveways that serve multiple distinct addresses or properties.
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 5 meters long that serve a single address or property.
c. Mapped driveways should be marked as "Private Road".

2. General agreement ("Guidelines"?)
a. Map driveways over 50 meters especially if Waze might confuse being on that driveway for being on an adjacent street or vice-versa.
b. Map driveways if the address coordinates are likely to route to an adjacent road that is inaccessible to the address.
d. Do NOT map driveways just to resolve a UR or system generated error.
e. Do NOT map driveways just because they appear on other mapping services.

3. No current concensus ("Things to consider"?)
a. Name the driveway according to the street to which it's attached.
b. For named driveways, add house numbers.
c. Do NOT map commercial "drive-thrus".
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Re: Driveways

Postby jdeyoung » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:07 pm

The need to have a driveway has more to do with the closest point to wherever a geo-coded address is indicated. Not having a driveway mapped leads to URs that indicate missing road/incorrect junction - since there's no point along the straight line for the client to know where to stop. Ideally it seems like the driveway would be best left "invisible" on the client unless you actually needed it. I don't so much care about clutter in WME, because, well, that's what the WME is there for. That said, I hate seeing the maze of clutter near major intersections with lots of parking lot roads on the client - especially when I'm just simply passing by.
Image
AM Chicago, NW Indiana, SW Lower MI
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:33 pm

Aqualung812 wrote:Very good advice, thank you jasonh300.

As to the second part about a wiki entry? It took a great deal of time to filter through all the pages of comments on this & even to find this thread.

I fear that others will not take the time to find this & make their own calls.
I noticed a UR requesting a road near a driveway, and a rank 5 is saying that Waze typically does not add driveways, even though this one is aprox 500m and serves two homes:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... TT&env=usa

I will discuss this with the editor first, but it sure would be nice to link back to a wiki entry saying what we do or do not do.


This sounds like the very situation where a driveway is needed and permissible. Try to contact the Level 5 and point them toward this thread if necessary.

@kentsmith9 was doing a lot of the Wiki work, and may already have something going with this that never got completed. I'm hoping he'll see this and respond.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:05 pm

Aqualung812 wrote:So, did this topic die? I've recently restarted editing in my area & plan to add driveways in rural areas as private roads if they are >~100m.
I've searched the wiki & do not see an entry yet. Should I create something on the Wiki, or wait for more guidance from the rank 4-6 people I see discussing this issue a few months ago?


I think it's been accepted that long driveways like you describe are permissible to be added to the map, but I would recommend not going through the effort of drawing in driveways unless there's a known problem. Especially if there are other more productive things you can do to the map in your area.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:42 pm

There is no "Driveway" road type in Waze. There is Private Road, which is the road type that is used on the occasion that a private driveway is to be mapped. Parking Lots are mapped using the Parking Lot Road type.
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Re: Driveways

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:20 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:And this isn't good enough. 1) We don't name unnamed private driveways, so 2) Waze doesn't let you set the stop point on any road other than the main named one. This is a must for remote driveways and store addresses within parking lots.


Okay, so explain how this works. In the image below, assuming the address lookup is working, and the actual building for 118 is at point C, will Waze route you to point A, being the spot on the road that the address is assigned to, or will it still follow the driveway in to point B to get you as close as possible to point C?

If so, what's the reasoning behind even having a point A? If not, does the driveway provide any type of aid to navigation other than something to snap to when driving on the driveway, and when trying to leave?

Image

My response was *really* in reply to this:
jdeyoung wrote:since there's no point along the straight line for the client to know where to stop.

which is incorrect.

Point A will get you right to the intersection of the driveway whether it's there or not.

In this example here, unless I had driven that driveway, I never would've known it was there, and any attempt to draw in driveways like this is futile unless a Wazer is actually using them, and has put them in using the pave function.
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