Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby Riamus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:32 pm

Having trouble uploading images, but when you go here you can see on Street View there is "Bollinger Crossing" from the overhead signs in the intersection headed into the parking lot. That is the name of the shopping center, not the road itself.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lon ... TTTFTTTTFT

Inside the parking lot there is no such street names. If we named just this segment from the street, then when inside the parking lot you would get a message to turn at "Bollinger Crossing" when no sign in the parking lot is actually labeled with that name.


That would be why you would not name the street based on the name of the mall. If the street doesn't have a name, don't name it and you don't have this problem. If the street is named, then there is nothing wrong with the instructions saying to turn onto XX Road because that is exactly what you're doing whether you are entering or exiting the parking lot.


I now see what Kent is saying and agree. It can hurt navigation to give entrance roads to large mall/shopping complexes the name of the mall and leave the rest of the parking lot roads unnamed. Internally when exiting the lot I get turn instructions that use the name of the next named segment in the route. Thus, where there are multiple exits it is more helpful to be hearing the name of road at the exit I should be working towards, rather than a mall name that does not distinguish between exits.

However, if there are actual road signs that call different roads different names at the entrances or within parking lots, I think those names should be mapped.


Right. I did not suggest using the mall name. As mentioned above your quote, only name roads that have names. Do not put in fake names, such as the name of the mall. It is really never a good idea to falsify the data. Name a street if it is named. Do not name the street if it is not named.

I disagree. If "Bollinger Crossing" is the name of the mall, and it's on a sign that looks like a street sign, the street should be named.

If you think it's confusing that it would continue to say "Bollinger Crossing", surely it would be far more confusing if it continued to say "San Ramon Valley Blvd" instead, which is what would happen otherwise.


As mentioned above, that makes exiting the mall not make any sense. If the road is named, then it makes sense to say to turn onto the road of that name than to say to turn onto some other road. If I'm going to the police station and the road leading to the parking lot is called Prison Way, the instruction should be to turn onto Prison Way and not to turn onto City Police Station. There isn't any reason why malls should be different.

As far as instances where there isn't a named road at the entrance, then the directions may pull the name of the first named segment and that's more of a matter of bad implementation than anything else. We should not fake the road names just because of that. It would be pretty easy to just have Waze not say a street name if the next segment is an unnamed parking lot road. If you're turning from one parking lot road to another parking lot road that is not named, just say "Turn Right" or "Turn Left." If turning from a parking lot road onto a named road, then include the name in the directions. The entrance to a parking lot should be a parking lot road unless it's an actual street and an actual street should have a name, so that should work in all instances when the map is set up correctly.
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Re: Driveways

Postby Riamus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:32 pm

Sorry. Yes, I'm referring to two separate issues. Entering and Exiting.

Entering:
When entering onto a named street, you should hear the instruction using that street name and not the name of the mall. When entering onto an unnamed street, you should just hear to turn and not receive a street name instruction at all. Although you may have an unofficial "name," I don't consider it correct to label the street as if it were an official name. If the city doesn't consider that to be official, neither should we. And by not doing that, we avoid the situation where I've seen the same "custom" name like that sign at every single entrance. It doesn't help drivers to have half a dozen different entrances/exits that all have the same "name". And a "custom" name at a mall is no different from someone going to a store and buying a "custom" sign and hanging it at the end of their driveway. That doesn't mean we have to name the driveway based on that sign.

Exiting:
When exiting, you do not want to hear the directions saying to turn onto the mall name if you're leaving the mall. That just really doesn't make sense. Instead, if you are exiting onto a named street that's part of the mall's parking lot structure, you should hear the directions stating the correct name of the street and not the mall's name. If you are exiting onto an unnamed street that's part of the mall's parking lot structure, then you should not hear any instruction mentioning the mall's name. Ideally, you also would not hear any street name going from unnamed to unnamed within a parking lot. However, we know that you'll pick up the first named segment when leaving the lot. Waze needs to fix that so it makes sense in the various situations where you should not hear the next named segment or else provide us with an option to name a street "null" in addition to unnamed and if there is a null street before getting to a named segment, it will not read the next named segment. You could then place that on all parking lot entrances that aren't named and avoid the problems entering or exiting the lots.
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Re: Driveways

Postby Riamus » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:49 pm

Dead end? Most perhaps, but certainly nowhere near all. Many are loop driveways or have access to two different streets. I really don't think we need any decision on what a driveway is. I think everyone knows what a driveway is. That isn't the issue here. The issue is how or when to map a driveway.
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Re: Driveways

Postby russblau » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:30 pm

jondrush wrote:
1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
a. Map driveways that serve multiple distinct addresses or properties.
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property.
c. Mapped driveways should be marked as "Private Road".

2. General agreement ("Guidelines"?)
a. Map driveways over 50 meters
a2. Map driveways if Waze might confuse being on that driveway for being on an adjacent street or vice-versa.
b. Map driveways if the address coordinates are likely to route to an adjacent road that is inaccessible to the address.
d. Do NOT map driveways just to resolve a UR or system generated error.
e. Do NOT map driveways just because they appear on other mapping services.

3. No current consensus ("Things to consider"?)
a. Name the driveway according to the street to which it's attached.
b. For named driveways, add house numbers.

I think the minimum should be 10m. I altered some other comments for grammar and split 2a into two topics to discuss separately.


Suggest inserting 2(a3):

Map a driveway if it has its own street name and at least one address is assigned to that name, regardless of length.

In some rural areas, there are private "roads" that are basically glorified driveways, but have street signs and house numbers assigned to them; this guideline would avoid any question about whether such "roads" qualify to be mapped.
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Re: Driveways

Postby russblau » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:14 pm

JJLatWayz wrote:
jondrush wrote:
1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property.

I think the minimum should be 10m. I altered some other comments for grammar and split 2a into two topics to discuss separately.


If you change "do NOT map driveways less than 5 meters long that serve a single address or property" to "do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property", that would seem to lower the consensus and change it from an agreed rule to a general guideline.


Really? 10 meters is still a pretty trivial driveway. I just mapped my driveway out of curiosity (and then deleted it) -- it is 41 meters, out to the centerline of the street (so the street probably accounts for 2-3 meters of the total length). That's a bit longer than average in northern Virginia, but not by much. This is for a house that fronts directly on the street. Go out a mile or two west of where I live, to where the 2-acre lots are, and you'll find plenty of driveways that are well over 100 meters long.

EDIT: A 5-meter long driveway, allowing at least 2 meters for the distance from the end of the driveway to the center of the street, would basically be one car-length long. If you have a pickup truck, you wouldn't be able to park it in this driveway without the bumper sticking out into the street. That's a ridiculously low cutoff.
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Re: Driveways

Postby russblau » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:12 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:
mapcat wrote:
Riamus wrote:However I would not recommend naming the "Private Road / Driveway" unless the name it is clearly visible to the driver as they approach the road in question.

Well, I can tell you for a fact that at least in some places (Sussex Co DE) there are some private roads that have a name and at least one address assigned to them, but they sometimes have no visible sign and look like a driveway.
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:43 pm

Driveways should be to single houses not business, only to resident
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm

I know I just putting my input, so it can be considered
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:07 am

Driveway should come off a road or street or private street or private road
Driveway could be dirt or hard ball, it should have one way in the other end should be a deadend. To the
Building, it does not have a name it just tells people which house number to turn into,

Waiting on the ruling for this
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:19 pm

Where driving in a parking lot is still makes it a parking lot not a driveway
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