Driveways

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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:56 am

mapcat wrote:
200.jpg
These driveways are 200-300m long, but the houses are still within view of the road.

100.jpg
OTOH, this house is less than 150m from the highway, but it's obscured by two rows of trees and a railway. Does its curving driveway belong on the map?

The northernmore(?) house of the two in the 200-300m example might get mistaken for the southernmore house if house numbers are live before the stop point function is working. A perpendicular drawn from the center of the roof of the north house will be nearer to the south house's driveway. Also, there does seem to be some plant life between the north house and the road...

On the other hand, the house with the curving driveway doesn't seem like it would be confused for any other house.

Not that I disagree with you, though. I do agree that simply "50 m or more from the road" isn't enough. 300 m is nearly a quarter mile, though...
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:06 pm

Riamus wrote:Regarding drive-thrus, my opinion is simply that 1) mapping them prevents problems, and 2) you should worry more about fixing problems than worrying about whether or not you think it's too cluttered, and 3) unless auto-zoom is disabled, you aren't going to even see the parking lot roads if you're at about 25-30 mph unless you are navigating and a turn is coming up. If you're in a very slow part of a city, you may see them more often, but you'll also be going so slowly that you still won't see that many on the screen at the same time. If you're going fast enough to matter, then they won't be showing up anyhow. Yes, we want them made less visible. I've suggested using just a centerline for them. But as long as mapping one prevents problems - bad speed data and avoiding map problems - then I think it's a good idea to map them. Just keep pushing hard for changing the display of those roads. For that matter, we already can change color schemes... get Waze to put the width of roads into the configuration as well instead of being hard coded. Then everyone can have what they want for the display.

Not to mention that drive-thrus don't look anything like regular roads on the map. I look at a map with mapped drive-thrus and I think "there must be a McDonald's there".

Making parking lot roads less obvious is gonna take more work than we thought, though. Road width is actually modifiable in the theme files, but parking lot roads don't have their own display type. It's shared with a couple other types. And we don't want private roads made smaller.

JJLatWayz wrote:I'm not disputing that. If 5 meters is ridiculously low, then it should be easy to get unanimous consensus to create an actual rule. If everyone agrees "10 meters" regardless of the number of addresses should never be mapped, great. I don't think I've been around long enough to cast a vote, but I have done enough editing and driving and using competing sat/nav to offer an opinion.

By the way, when I said "5 meters", I was thinking of physical distance, not virtual. The length of your driveway is the length from the edge of the street or public right-of-way, not the length from the center line of the road. So a literal 5 meter driveway, like my own, can not hold 2 cars parked end-to-end. At 5 meters, there is no room for confusion. If you've reached the closest spot on my street to my house, you could not possibly be confused about how to get to the right house. Having my driveway on the map can NOT benefit any aspect of Waze and NOT have my driveway would not harm Waze. It would indeed be ridiculous and I think everyone would agree. Even with multiple addresses off a 5 meter driveway, getting lost in the car is virtually impossible.

A literal 5 meter driveway can't hold a regular cab Ford F-150, at 5.41 m the shortest version of the best-selling vehicle in America. It can barely hold the best selling car, the 4.81 m Toyota Camry.

Including it in the standards as "Don't map driveways less than 5m long" will be interpreted as "Consider mapping driveways longer than 5m", which is way not optimal. Plus, I don't even know how it would be physically possible to fit more than one house on a driveway you can't even fit a single Crown Victoria in.

"Easy to get consensus" is not a legitimate reason to write a rule a certain way.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:18 pm

AndyPoms wrote:
sketch wrote:The point is that we're making a clear set of rules, rather than allowing each editor to make their own. And drive-thrus are mapped, just not as private roads, so they're not under the ambit of our discussion.

Drive-thrus fall under the "Small Parking Lots" clause and are NOT mapped.
Which is changing. Read Alan's post above. We're discussing updating the Wiki to standards that actually work. Lets not use outdated existing Wiki thinking in our discussion.
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Re: Driveways

Postby sketch » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:07 pm

The point is that we're making a clear set of rules, rather than allowing each editor to make their own. And drive-thrus are mapped, just not as private roads, so they're not under the ambit of our discussion.
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:19 pm

Where driving in a parking lot is still makes it a parking lot not a driveway
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:07 am

Driveway should come off a road or street or private street or private road
Driveway could be dirt or hard ball, it should have one way in the other end should be a deadend. To the
Building, it does not have a name it just tells people which house number to turn into,

Waiting on the ruling for this
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm

I know I just putting my input, so it can be considered
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Re: Driveways

Postby shellshock2872 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:43 pm

Driveways should be to single houses not business, only to resident
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Re: Driveways

Postby russblau » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:12 pm

kentsmith9 wrote:
mapcat wrote:
Riamus wrote:However I would not recommend naming the "Private Road / Driveway" unless the name it is clearly visible to the driver as they approach the road in question.

Well, I can tell you for a fact that at least in some places (Sussex Co DE) there are some private roads that have a name and at least one address assigned to them, but they sometimes have no visible sign and look like a driveway.
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Re: Driveways

Postby russblau » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:14 pm

JJLatWayz wrote:
jondrush wrote:
1. Nearly universal agreement ("Rules"?):
b. Do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property.

I think the minimum should be 10m. I altered some other comments for grammar and split 2a into two topics to discuss separately.


If you change "do NOT map driveways less than 5 meters long that serve a single address or property" to "do NOT map driveways less than 10 meters long or that serve a single address or property", that would seem to lower the consensus and change it from an agreed rule to a general guideline.


Really? 10 meters is still a pretty trivial driveway. I just mapped my driveway out of curiosity (and then deleted it) -- it is 41 meters, out to the centerline of the street (so the street probably accounts for 2-3 meters of the total length). That's a bit longer than average in northern Virginia, but not by much. This is for a house that fronts directly on the street. Go out a mile or two west of where I live, to where the 2-acre lots are, and you'll find plenty of driveways that are well over 100 meters long.

EDIT: A 5-meter long driveway, allowing at least 2 meters for the distance from the end of the driveway to the center of the street, would basically be one car-length long. If you have a pickup truck, you wouldn't be able to park it in this driveway without the bumper sticking out into the street. That's a ridiculously low cutoff.
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