Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Waze

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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby tlcarpenter69 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:38 pm

Talk about thread revival.

What is really interesting is that some of the people in this thread mentioned being newbies when they wrote, and now they are an area manager according to their signatures. I want to know what they think about this after a year.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby Thortok2000 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:30 am

Sure, I'll bite. Here's my original post.

Thortok2000 wrote:I admit I'm very new to Waze. I love going in and editing the map in several of the ways mentioned in the original post, not because I'm point-hunting, but because I like having a really accurate map.

I watched all the videos on youtube and I've read some of the wiki. I'm not trying to mess up the map for anyone else, I'm trying to improve it, that's the whole point.

I don't see people get 'points' for editing other wiki-type databases. I don't see that it's necessary here, either. The incentive to edit the map is to have an accurate map. I don't see that there's any other incentive necessary.


I still feel like 'points' are useless. All that seems to matter now is edit count so that you can get the higher rank and/or Area Manager rights, etc.

I do think a 'communicate with other editors of the segment' and such would be handy. Or a way to add map notes that someone can reply to and you'll be notified of a response.


Still think this, although things like closure UR's and notes on time-restricted roads or turns is a very good start that wasn't there when I made this comment. Even UR conversations weren't there when I made this comment.

For reported map problems, I often want to ask the user additional questions to help me fix the map for them. That'd be handy, too.


This has been added and is awesome.

I'm more than happy to take any additional knowledge of best practices available. I want the map to be accurate, consistent, and simple (in that priority.) I'm happy to put in plenty of effort to get it that way. What do I need to do?



The chat feature also wasn't there at the time of this post. Chat goes a long way in new users being able to ask questions and get answers. In fact, you couldn't even see other live users on the map at all back when this was written. LOTS has changed since this post to improve the experience.

In fact, one of the original complaints, over-mapping of landmarks, now with the new place system, many of those landmarks are okay to map, although you still have newbies mapping parking lots and not knowing when to use point instead of area, etc.

A lot has changed for the better since the original post, the wiki has been improved significantly and is more 'on track' with the way we actually want things to be, etc. I do think the video should be re-worked and I still think points are useless, but pretty much all the rest has been improved.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby Thortok2000 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:28 pm

I admit I'm very new to Waze. I love going in and editing the map in several of the ways mentioned in the original post, not because I'm point-hunting, but because I like having a really accurate map.

I watched all the videos on youtube and I've read some of the wiki. I'm not trying to mess up the map for anyone else, I'm trying to improve it, that's the whole point.

I don't see people get 'points' for editing other wiki-type databases. I don't see that it's necessary here, either. The incentive to edit the map is to have an accurate map. I don't see that there's any other incentive necessary.

I do think a 'communicate with other editors of the segment' and such would be handy. Or a way to add map notes that someone can reply to and you'll be notified of a response.

For reported map problems, I often want to ask the user additional questions to help me fix the map for them. That'd be handy, too.

I'm more than happy to take any additional knowledge of best practices available. I want the map to be accurate, consistent, and simple (in that priority.) I'm happy to put in plenty of effort to get it that way. What do I need to do?
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby tckma » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:11 pm

Having joined Waze very recently, I still don't understand why there is such a "game" aspect to the app. I don't care if my in-app avatar is wearing a crown or carrying a sword or whatever. In fact, the person who introduced me to Waze said "the points thing is stupid," and I agree. I have a kind of extreme commute (98 mi round-trip), so the "500 miles a week" candy is easy, for example, but I don't care. Waze was recommended to me because I complained on FB about my commute and about how routing/traffic apps I'd tried up to this point were invariably abysmal. I'm not in it for the competition. I'm in it for an improved and more enjoyable commute.

The thing that hooked me on Waze was the ability to edit the map. I have been a roadgeek since I was a kid, and so this fascinates me. Yes, I have made mistakes, some which were pointed out to me on the forums, and I'm sure many more that have gone unnoticed by others and of which I am unaware. I anticipate that I will make many more mistakes. But I intend to learn from the forum, the wiki, and experience. I understand that few editors will do that.

"Oh but any Joe Schmoe off the street can vandalize the map and make bad edits!" Look at Wikipedia. Look how popular it is. Look how it is vandalized every minute of every hour of every day. Look how novice Wikipedia editors make mistakes they're unaware of and don't understand. The community corrects it. I think the same thing happens here. These are problems inherent in any system where the public can make edits freely. Here in Waze, there are Area Managers and locks and controls in place to make sure an editor knows what they are doing before they try something that could have a deadly result. I have no problem with that.

I haven't reached 5K edits yet, and I've been here less than a month, so I can't speak to whether or not the AM test is easy or superficial. All I know is the immediate area around my house has no AM as of yet, so I'm going to try for it when I have the opportunity. I'm not making edits just to increase my edit count to become an AM that much faster. I have no problem with the test being difficult, if you want to make it so. That will make me all that much more confident that I know what I'm doing when I pass it. If I think the test is too easy, I'll probably say something, and it won't mean as much.

There are people who will make edits just to increase their edit count and become an AM. For that, I say the map editor community should devise better testing (well, I can't really criticize the testing yet) and training materials, with an eye toward continuous improvement of those materials -- this will lead to continuous positive improvement of the map and the non-editing user's experience with Waze. The Waze wiki and Best Map Editing Practices have been great and they have helped me, but there's currently no requirement to read those, and no requirement to read or post to these forums, to have the ability to make edits. The map editor community is going to have to develop online training based on that material, and use that material to devise the test(s).

Just my $0.02.
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Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Waze

Postby shellshock2872 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:45 am

Why don't they just start out locked into the take a 25 to 50 question test and the only one that can unlock it is RM and above, Then the would know whom there RM is and the RM would have an Ideal whom is editing
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby shellshock2872 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:39 am

I agree alot with alan I apply for AM him amnd my region manager did not feel my knowledge was up to power where it should be so they rejected, it did not hurt my feeling, I will learn more, I have read up on it and got more knowledge, by useing the forms and sent pm, when I feel like I can answer more editors question, I will apply again, besides to do not need to be an area manager to edit the map just drive it and pay attention to your surrounding, I am only interested in my home area. And I want to do it rigth anything big like spliting a road or merging one your area manager is it just a pm away
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby scott_h » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:45 pm

There are some obvious points hounds. One local user has become a level 4 editor within 2 months of joining. They seem to have script capabilities and are "tagging" a massive amount of roads for edit points. This has a consequence of wiping out the proper last edit data so there is no way to know the last time someone purposefully edited a segment which was a feature I used to rely on. I was told that only country managers have access to scripts but this person seems to have found a backdoor. The only posts this person has made are related to scripting. Hopefully they are only after some perceived glory of points and ranking, but the question needs to be asked - could they do something much more devious with their map editing script skills after they achieve an even higher level?
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby moogonk » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:01 pm

CivicDuty29: Perfect post. Thank you.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby mchlkrieger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:24 pm

I don't think Waze is intended to be a Google Maps competitor or the gospel of all things paved. In fact, since Google's takeover, making Waze more like Google Maps is a losing strategy.

The community-editable aspect of Waze is its defining feature, and for my part, the only reason I use it. Make it more difficult to edit, and you take away that sense of ownership. Get rid of the game elements, and you take away the fun.

The OP might be willing to plod away with joyless map edits, but I don't think that's a recipe for continued growth. I agree that better education is needed, and as a newbie, I'm often frustrated with the lack of an authoritative source of guidance. But then again, that's what makes Waze fun -- it's a group of real people interacting, making things better, and occasionally, making mistakes.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby marcedli » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:23 pm

senseless edits, pointhunting can be easily investigated and terminated by waze, all depends on local community leaders who are able to report suspicious editing/cheating/destruction

I think that's the key (local community) to make things better

I agree with you that waze should think over the whole 'game part'of waze including editing rank system to avoid the above mentioned behavior, I'm sure it will be changed

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