Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Waze

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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby CookeCity » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:57 pm

As long as we are throwing pennies onto the pile, I figure I'll add mine as well.

While I agree about the potential of abuse due to the gaming nature of the app (I also don't care about what my avatar wears), I haven't seen too much of this behavior in the areas I work in, so maybe I'm just lucky. I think that some of the problems that sneak in are partially due to the initial process of how editors are welcomed to Waze.

I remember first starting out editing, mostly because I was in an area where the roads were a mess. I tried to pave a road, and then wondered why nothing magically happened to make it "real", so I found out how to edit and went from there.

The problem is that the Video that you watch has just enough information to make you truly dangerous. They cover all sorts of high level topics, and the details is what kills you. I just re-watched the video, and most of the important details I've learned through the Wiki and Forum just aren't there...but the video doesn't tell you that before you edit, you should be familiar with all of these. Once you finish watching it you figure you are ready to go - "hey look at all these driveways that nobody has mapped!"

I remember doing my first editing after that video, seeing "red" roads that I added, and assuming that they needed to be approved by somebody. Nobody pointed this out to me, and fortunately I came across the guidance in the Forums and quickly went back and "fixed" all of the incomplete work I'd done. But I had to see that in the Forums, even after reading the "Best map editing practice" Wiki page, there really isn't a description of what that red road really means. The "Recorded via Client" section only briefly mentions a red road, but it sure isn't highlighted like it should be (no pun intended).

Information on Landmarks really isn't even in the Wiki, you need to somehow know to look in the Country Forums to get some guidance, and then you still need to track the WME forum as well to really understand what the Champs want you to do.

It seems to me that all of the available Documentation is written as reference for medium to experienced users, and there isn't a really good "Editing 101" document that walks people through the real basics, explaining some of the rules that aren't as obvious as they should be.

And as a new editor, if you have a question for an AM, it turns out (if I understand it properly) that the list of AMs that display as an overlay on the WME are very out of date, and some of these people may not be active, again, you need to know how to dig through the forums so you can ask a question of an AM.

As I see new editors start out, I often try to PM them to give them some heads up and point them in the right direction, but most of the time they either don't have PMs turned on, or don't read them. Seems like this would be a very good "automated" way to filter out wayward editors. If it is a community process, shouldn't they be required to talk to the community?
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby HookThem » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:29 pm

I tend to agree with most points made in this post. Being a newbie editor (Level 1 with ~100 edits), I am CONSTANTLY flipping back to the wiki when I come to a situation that I didn't remember from the training video (e.g. point vs. area, do I need to tag the middle of the structure or the closest entry point). In the end, I know I am making QUALITY edits and filling out as much accurate information as possible. However, I don't think I represent the majority of the user base. If we had some kind of mandatory test prior to starting making edits, it would weed out the point hounds who just want score a bunch of points quickly. Furthermore, if a user has a track record of making a lot of bad edits, there should be some way to put them on a "probation" period or lock them out from editing altogether.

I spend about 30 minutes to an hour each evening looking at map update requests and adding my frequented locations to the map. After a week, I only have 100 edits. Call me slow -- but I know my edits are high quality and are creating a robust database that the Waze app will use correctly.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby JoshuaJolly » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:51 pm

I agree, even though I'm new to Waze and have made edits already, it is way to easy for the average point-motivated person to get on there and do what they want to increase their rank. We want efficient maps and these people just will not help. Great read. thanks a lot
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby marcedli » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:41 pm

what you are talking about is simply the matter of efficiency and proficiency level of the local community

if the community is lead by a small dedicated group, they have the right and power to cover all issues you mentioned

so what you really need is a strong leadership by few experienced and enthusiast editors, local champs

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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby marcedli » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:57 pm

lock the city to level 3, you can do it, it's not that hard...

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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby marcedli » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:23 pm

senseless edits, pointhunting can be easily investigated and terminated by waze, all depends on local community leaders who are able to report suspicious editing/cheating/destruction

I think that's the key (local community) to make things better

I agree with you that waze should think over the whole 'game part'of waze including editing rank system to avoid the above mentioned behavior, I'm sure it will be changed

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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby mchlkrieger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:24 pm

I don't think Waze is intended to be a Google Maps competitor or the gospel of all things paved. In fact, since Google's takeover, making Waze more like Google Maps is a losing strategy.

The community-editable aspect of Waze is its defining feature, and for my part, the only reason I use it. Make it more difficult to edit, and you take away that sense of ownership. Get rid of the game elements, and you take away the fun.

The OP might be willing to plod away with joyless map edits, but I don't think that's a recipe for continued growth. I agree that better education is needed, and as a newbie, I'm often frustrated with the lack of an authoritative source of guidance. But then again, that's what makes Waze fun -- it's a group of real people interacting, making things better, and occasionally, making mistakes.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby moogonk » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:01 pm

CivicDuty29: Perfect post. Thank you.
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby scott_h » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:45 pm

There are some obvious points hounds. One local user has become a level 4 editor within 2 months of joining. They seem to have script capabilities and are "tagging" a massive amount of roads for edit points. This has a consequence of wiping out the proper last edit data so there is no way to know the last time someone purposefully edited a segment which was a feature I used to rely on. I was told that only country managers have access to scripts but this person seems to have found a backdoor. The only posts this person has made are related to scripting. Hopefully they are only after some perceived glory of points and ranking, but the question needs to be asked - could they do something much more devious with their map editing script skills after they achieve an even higher level?
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Re: Ranks, Points & the Scoreboard: The Eventual Death of Wa

Postby shellshock2872 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:39 am

I agree alot with alan I apply for AM him amnd my region manager did not feel my knowledge was up to power where it should be so they rejected, it did not hurt my feeling, I will learn more, I have read up on it and got more knowledge, by useing the forms and sent pm, when I feel like I can answer more editors question, I will apply again, besides to do not need to be an area manager to edit the map just drive it and pay attention to your surrounding, I am only interested in my home area. And I want to do it rigth anything big like spliting a road or merging one your area manager is it just a pm away
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