Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversation

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Re: New Editor Version! Scheduled Restrictions and Conversat

Postby Thortok2000 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:01 am

Question: What should you do for a "there was no problem to solve" situation? Not identified, or 'solve'?

Example: Someone reports a toll road, but the road was already marked as a toll road. Or they report a toll booth, which already has a landmark on the map. I sent a note about how Waze doesn't display toll booths and suggested he check the 'avoid toll roads' setting on his app, then marked solve.

Next question: If you mark it as solved, does the user still get your message?
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby SuperDave1426 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:50 pm

paulkok_my wrote:Today I got a few push notification on my client from UR replying but I do not receive any email notification. Anybody facing this?


I've been getting them ok so far. This is probably an obvious question, but have you checked with your E-Mail provider to make sure that the notifications from Waze aren't ending up being treated as spam?
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby SuperDave1426 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:03 pm

I, for one, appreciate it when another editor helps out. There have been a couple of times now when another editor saw my request for more information from the reporter and knew what the problem was. That other editor fixed the segment of road that needed fixing and left a comment stating what the problem was and what his fix was. I then added a comment that I was closing the UR as solved (for the benefit of the reporter, assuming that he would actually get the messages at some point) and then so closed the UR.

I started the conversation and since I was still active in it, I appreciated being the one to close the UR, but as to the edit itself, I didn't care since it was a valid edit to fix the problem. I realize other editors might not feel quite that way. :-) But for me, I'm not editing to get points (yes, the points are nice, but that's not primarily why I edit), I'm editing to help make the map better.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby SuperDave1426 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:44 pm

ottonomy wrote:These conditions are the case for me in both the production and beta editors. SuperDave, can you verify that you're actually able to view URs outside your area, and not just MPs?


I went back to verify, and you know what? You're right. It's only MPs that I'm seeing outside my editable area. I guess I confused myself on the first look-through. :-)
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby SuperDave1426 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:01 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I didn't even think URs showed up outside a user's editable area, which means they could have rights to fix the issues within that area. If URs show up everywhere now, that's a WME issue which should be fixed.


I think his big issue is with URs and MPs that editors can get to, but can't "do anything about" because the road where the note appears is locked at a rank higher than the editor. (Which as far as I'm concerned is a NON issue for the reasons I gave in my reply earlier in this thread.)

Just as a FYI: I'm able to see URs and MPs outside of my editable area and even open them up to see what the reported issue is; however, I can't close them. Which is as it should be. :-)

I haven't looked to see if a UR outside of my editable area will let me start or add to a conversation, though. I think there's nothing wrong with being able to see a UR/MP outside of one's editable area, but I could see a possible issue if you can start or add to a conversation outside of your editable area, given the inability to actually close the UR as Solved or NI.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby SuperDave1426 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:49 pm

elle-emme wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:So now, the lower level user has to ask for an unlock, or ask for someone else to fix the problem, creating additional complication.


As long as the lower-ranked editor does that, is it really such an issue? How is it any different than a low-ranked editor running across the same problem during their normal editing of the map and posting an unlock request in the forum?


Absolutely +1.

When I'm editing whatever and need to have someone else apply the change because there's a junction node, etc., that's attached to something locked at a rank higher than me, I post the usual unlock/update request and it gets handled by someone. Nobody seems to complain about all that extra complication because I couldn't just handle it myself.

I completely fail to see how this is any different. If I'm browsing and come across something as incredibly "informative" as a UR containing "General error (user reported)" with no describing text and nothing showing up in the drive or waze-provided routing that gives me a clue as to the problem, I would have simply closed it as NI in the days before we had this feature - regardless of what rank the road was locked at because there's nothing to go on. NOBODY would be able to solve that, regardless of rank. Now we DO have the feature, so I see absolutely nothing wrong with making the comment to ask the reporter for more information. Then, simply follow the procedure as outlined in the Wiki: Give it a few days and if there's no reply from the reporter, close the UR. If there is a reply, then I've now got the same information that I would be giving in an unlock/update request I make for myself. Treat it at that point like any other unlock/update, make the request and when it's taken care of, close the UR in addition to the usual thank/solved in that thread.

Using the above example (General error), I've already run into three of those on roads I could edit where the reply was, essentially, "Oops." They hit it by accident or didn't realize they had done it. Problem solve, UR solved, done. In the case of a rank locked road, I wouldn't even have to post the unlock/update request since the UR itself can be closed.
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Re: New Editor Version! Scheduled Restrictions and Conversat

Postby SuperDave1426 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:40 pm

AndyPoms wrote:You should have been marking those as "Not Identified" as you didn't solve the issue they were reporting. Only MPs should never be marked as "Not Identified", NOT URs.


Sorry. I *meant* to say "Not identified." My bad.

Yes, I'll admit that once or twice I did a "solved" because it really looked like it might have simply been an accidental report based on other information (street view, turn restrictions checked, road directions checked, etc.), but the vast majority of the time it was marked as "not identified." Now that you've made that clarification for me, I'll be sure that in the future I *never* mark a "I didn't solve it" UR as "solved." (Though like I said, most of the time I "not identified" them).

Thanks, and I'll be more careful in the future! :-)
Last edited by SuperDave1426 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Editor Version! Scheduled Restrictions and Conversat

Postby SuperDave1426 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:56 pm

ohad-ron wrote:Conversations - this feature lets you talk directly from the editor with people who have reported update requests. Client users are able to reply directly from the client, and you will get a notification to your client and an email when they respond.


Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I've lost count of how many times I've seen a "General error (user reported)" with no other information provided by the user, and the path information being displayed was insufficient to figure out the problem, so I've just had to mark the issue as "solved" to get it off the map. This should be a BIG help to let us clear those up in a more meaningful way! :mrgreen:
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby sketch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:16 pm

I'm not proposing any changes to the editor or the way URs are handled—just a simple rule of etiquette to be followed by (and, in extreme cases, enforceable against) editors.

Area managers look at their areas and see conversation markers and assume that they—or one of their co-managers, or a local editor—have assumed the responsibility for that issue. It's not good policy to allow day-trip editors to immediately undertake responsibility in an area with which they aren't familiar, when there are other, better-equipped editors who are ready and willing to take responsibility and action.

That said, an addition to the in-map UR marker which shows whether you're following that UR would be helpful in situations like these. See one that's been replied to and that you're not following, and follow it; then you can keep an eye on it and perhaps help a newer editor resolve the situation if necessary.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby sketch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:56 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:@jasonh300 I think you're being overly critical and restrictive. This is a collaborative environment and the handful of country managers can't fix everything. We've got to have newer editors looking at URs and looking to solve map issues too.

I didn't even think URs showed up outside a user's editable area, which means they could have rights to fix the issues within that area. If URs show up everywhere now, that's a WME issue which should be fixed.

elle-emme wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:So now, the lower level user has to ask for an unlock, or ask for someone else to fix the problem, creating additional complication.

As long as the lower-ranked editor does that, is it really such an issue? How is it any different than a low-ranked editor running across the same problem during their normal editing of the map and posting an unlock request in the forum?

I agree. Just because there is a conversation going on, asking for an unlock is no different now than before. Hundreds of editors every month ask for unlocks because of a UR they can't resolve due to rank. This is a normal part of the editing workflow. This is not an additional complication. We've been doing this for years.

jasonh300 wrote:We've worked on and tested this feature for 6 months now to make it a DIRECT communication between the editor and the reporter. Obviously this isn't how it's going to work now that everyone has access to it. This is quickly going to turn into an unmanageable mess.

I disagree. Now I don't have to worry about trying to solve ALL URs in my area using conversations. What I didn't think about in testing is a way to quickly, visually ID URs which I have participated in. Like the Participated list for the forum in Tapatalk.

elle-emme wrote:If you worked on and tested it for six months, then how did this issue never come up? Did no one ever bring up the possibility of rank-locking conversations according to the rank lock of the road the UR was reported on?

But a good % of URs aren't about the road they are reported on anyway, so that's one reason it didn't come up. And I don't think it is worth the effort to pursue as a feature. The whole "issue" with multiple editors being involved in URs and the possible problems with it was partly due to not a lot of overlap between editors. But even before public release, we had issues with URs being closed improperly and having a conversation tool is not going to change it.

elle-emme wrote:edit: also, if it's such a big deal that plebeian editors are forbidden from initiating conversations on roads that are rank-locked and only patrician editors should do so, why isn't it addressed in the Wiki article about URs and conversations?

IMO, it isn't, and therefore, it isn't.

Regarding this, and the instant case:

I don't think low-level editors should be locked out of starting conversations. That's too extreme, and it doesn't really get to the heart of the problem here.

The problem in the instant case is that the low-level editor in question is immediate-blanket-responding in sloppy English to every UR in an area, 80 miles from his managed area, which is managed quite well by two Level 6 Country Managers.

As a matter of simple etiquette between editors, in proactively managed areas, editors who, (1) do not manage the area in question, and (2) are not local to that area, should allow a few days for the area manager, or someone local to the area, to follow through with editors first.

Managers and locals know their area best, and are best suited to fix issues in their area. If they're not on top of things, of course, other editors can come in and help out. But inexperienced and/or sloppy editors who take a day trip to a city with a well-maintained map are not in a position to help nearly as well as the editors who maintain that map so well.
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