Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversation

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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby Timbones » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:43 pm

omba_de wrote:I recently recognized, that the Livemap-URs don't have the additonal info "sent via Livemap" anymore.

This was a feature of the UROverview script, not part of the official editor.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby omba_de » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Timbones wrote:
omba_de wrote:I recently recognized, that the Livemap-URs don't have the additonal info "sent via Livemap" anymore.

This was a feature of the UROverview script, not part of the official editor.

Oh really? Huh. Didn't know it was related to URO...
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Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversation

Postby Pizuz » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:57 pm

foxitrot wrote:
pizuz wrote:I guessed that this behavior was intended, but wouldn't it be possible to issue an explicit warning in that case? At least once?

I could not imagine one reason for such behavior to be intended. Except for simplifying the necessary code...


My thoughts, exactly... But even for simplicity's sake, WME shouldn't allow unsuspecting users to do that much damage that easily, without at least giving out a fair warning about what's going to happen if they click on Save.

By the way, thanks for responding. Both of you ;)
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby sketch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:56 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:@jasonh300 I think you're being overly critical and restrictive. This is a collaborative environment and the handful of country managers can't fix everything. We've got to have newer editors looking at URs and looking to solve map issues too.

I didn't even think URs showed up outside a user's editable area, which means they could have rights to fix the issues within that area. If URs show up everywhere now, that's a WME issue which should be fixed.

elle-emme wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:So now, the lower level user has to ask for an unlock, or ask for someone else to fix the problem, creating additional complication.

As long as the lower-ranked editor does that, is it really such an issue? How is it any different than a low-ranked editor running across the same problem during their normal editing of the map and posting an unlock request in the forum?

I agree. Just because there is a conversation going on, asking for an unlock is no different now than before. Hundreds of editors every month ask for unlocks because of a UR they can't resolve due to rank. This is a normal part of the editing workflow. This is not an additional complication. We've been doing this for years.

jasonh300 wrote:We've worked on and tested this feature for 6 months now to make it a DIRECT communication between the editor and the reporter. Obviously this isn't how it's going to work now that everyone has access to it. This is quickly going to turn into an unmanageable mess.

I disagree. Now I don't have to worry about trying to solve ALL URs in my area using conversations. What I didn't think about in testing is a way to quickly, visually ID URs which I have participated in. Like the Participated list for the forum in Tapatalk.

elle-emme wrote:If you worked on and tested it for six months, then how did this issue never come up? Did no one ever bring up the possibility of rank-locking conversations according to the rank lock of the road the UR was reported on?

But a good % of URs aren't about the road they are reported on anyway, so that's one reason it didn't come up. And I don't think it is worth the effort to pursue as a feature. The whole "issue" with multiple editors being involved in URs and the possible problems with it was partly due to not a lot of overlap between editors. But even before public release, we had issues with URs being closed improperly and having a conversation tool is not going to change it.

elle-emme wrote:edit: also, if it's such a big deal that plebeian editors are forbidden from initiating conversations on roads that are rank-locked and only patrician editors should do so, why isn't it addressed in the Wiki article about URs and conversations?

IMO, it isn't, and therefore, it isn't.

Regarding this, and the instant case:

I don't think low-level editors should be locked out of starting conversations. That's too extreme, and it doesn't really get to the heart of the problem here.

The problem in the instant case is that the low-level editor in question is immediate-blanket-responding in sloppy English to every UR in an area, 80 miles from his managed area, which is managed quite well by two Level 6 Country Managers.

As a matter of simple etiquette between editors, in proactively managed areas, editors who, (1) do not manage the area in question, and (2) are not local to that area, should allow a few days for the area manager, or someone local to the area, to follow through with editors first.

Managers and locals know their area best, and are best suited to fix issues in their area. If they're not on top of things, of course, other editors can come in and help out. But inexperienced and/or sloppy editors who take a day trip to a city with a well-maintained map are not in a position to help nearly as well as the editors who maintain that map so well.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:35 pm

sketch wrote:The problem in the instant case is that the low-level editor in question is immediate-blanket-responding in sloppy English to every UR in an area, 80 miles from his managed area, which is managed quite well by two Level 6 Country Managers.

Editors cannot even see URs on the map outside of their editable area. The hyperbole here isn't exactly helping. Therefore, any URs which can be seen are potentially actionable by the editor and I see no problem with them asking the reporter for more information.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby sketch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:16 pm

I'm not proposing any changes to the editor or the way URs are handled—just a simple rule of etiquette to be followed by (and, in extreme cases, enforceable against) editors.

Area managers look at their areas and see conversation markers and assume that they—or one of their co-managers, or a local editor—have assumed the responsibility for that issue. It's not good policy to allow day-trip editors to immediately undertake responsibility in an area with which they aren't familiar, when there are other, better-equipped editors who are ready and willing to take responsibility and action.

That said, an addition to the in-map UR marker which shows whether you're following that UR would be helpful in situations like these. See one that's been replied to and that you're not following, and follow it; then you can keep an eye on it and perhaps help a newer editor resolve the situation if necessary.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:52 pm

sketch wrote:That said, an addition to the in-map UR marker which shows whether you're following that UR would be helpful in situations like these....

https://bugs.waze.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5957
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby HavanaDay » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:45 pm

I am a little confused by the etiquette you are proposing to follow. Is it not better for the UR reporter to get a comment about a UR he reported from anyone requesting more info of the UR they reported. I do this when I go outside my "managed" area. I do not consider I "own" that UR, but I do think you get more helpful and relative info the quicker a request for more info is made. If I respond to a UR for more information within the first day I usually get a response with more relative info. As the days pass from the UR date you get fewer and fewer responses or responses that aren't helpful (ie, I can't remember). Now just because my name is on there do I consider I own it. No I do not. I would hope other editors (this is where we might need to better educate new editors) would leave it open for the 7 days to wait for the response. Now also, if another sees the error, knows what the error is, and can fix the error then so be it. You are not going to "hurt" my feelings if they come along and solve the problem. I have started to let some local editors know that just because my name is on the top of the list, if they can solve it, solve it, and close it.

If Area Managers are coming along and seeing 1 comment and assuming that someone else is assuming the responsibility for the issue, are they really doing their job. if the Area Manager can solve it, then solve it. I understand the abuse that can go along with this, but, can we really solve the issue of someone wanting to close out 100 UR's for the points before the actual act. If you lock down UR's (another discussion) then aren't you in somewhat way limiting problems getting solved?

I truly believe that anyone writing a standard or well crafted request for more info as soon as possible on a UR makes for the best possible scenario to get a correct answer. As a general rule, I could care less if someone else posts a request for more info on a UR in my area. As long as they abide by the guidelines of allowing 7 days before closing for a response. If they truly know what the problem is and know they can solve it, two minutes after I post a comment for more info, then so be it.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:48 pm

HavanaDay wrote:If Area Managers are coming along and seeing 1 comment and assuming that someone else is assuming the responsibility for the issue, are they really doing their job. if the Area Manager can solve it, then solve it. I understand the abuse that can go along with this, but, can we really solve the issue of someone wanting to close out 100 UR's for the points before the actual act. If you lock down UR's (another discussion) then aren't you in somewhat way limiting problems getting solved?

Not just AMs: when I come upon a UR that has a comment from another editor requesting info from the reporter, and I think I know the answer, I will add a comment for the benefit of the original editor. I've done that a few times recently.
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Re: Official feedback thread - v1.3 - Schedules & Conversati

Postby foxitrot » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:02 pm

The only bit I'd add to some UR etiquette: if someone believes he knows the correct solution for a problem, make it and write about it in the conversation, then just wait a bit more with its closure. If none has an objection against the solution, or the reporter or other communicating editors agree with it it, the UR is free to be closed.
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