Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

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Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby cactusmonkey1966 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:02 pm

So I keep coming across split roads and at grade connectors in Las Vegas that don't really qualify as defined by wiki. Are we going to standardize our roads or just allow editors to delete what's there and put in their own version based on google arial pictures?

One area manager had problems here :

dbwiddis wrote:An enterprising new editor decided to split a bunch of roads that didn't need splitting. I'm putting them back how they were.

He did leave this orphan segment, of course (since he didn't have permission to delete it), which I'd love to connect things to again, if someone could kindly unlock it:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 02&env=usa

Edit: This one too:
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... s=57797533



I have seen splits in Henderson that erased existing roads with traffic history completely to put in completely new split roads that don't need to be split at all.

I see numerous at grade connectors throughout the city that don't meet criteria for doing such. Just because there is a little concrete triangle not even a few feet across doesn't make it a separate connector right?

Maybe I'm a bit too interested in sticking to wiki rules? Idealistic perhaps? I've only been editing for a few months so I don't know the history, but I do know it's not wiki standards.

Maybe if they're reading forums like this one they've already seen this link:
https://www.waze.com/wiki/Getting_Started

I'm curious if we should have some consensus by area managers and perhaps even consider locking at rank 3 the high traffic areas. What are your thoughts?
------------
EDIT 4/14:
per Waze champs in LV in April,
1) we've eliminated the bowties on the LV strip
2) eliminated unnecessary split roads in Anthem area in Henderson
3) elimated split roads on Lake Mead east of the Henderson Spaghetti Bowl
4) locked all of the above at rank 3


Any desire to work on these roads can PM message me or put it in the USA unlock forum.
US Unclock forum
Last edited by cactusmonkey1966 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Just my opinion - I don't see anything wrong with the at-grade connectors at the location in the permalink. Those roads are far enough away from the main intersection that people traveling them could very well start tripping "road too far apart" MPs. The at-grade connectors there should keep those from happening (and who knows - maybe whoever put them there did so in response to a MP).

As to over-enthusiastic low-level road splitters, were those done by rank 1 or rank 2 editors? Again, strictly my own opinion here, but I tend to favor the "lock at lowest level needed to protect" approach on important roads (Primary Street and above) if there have been problems. If you can get away with locking it at rank 2, do that. If it was a rank 2 that gave you the problems, then lock at rank 3.

Remember, this is supposed to be a community effort; if you lock everything out so that nobody but "high rank levels" can edit anything, nobody is going to want to contribute. Obviously, the down side of that is that you end up with newbies who occasionally screw something up.

And in all cases, if possible, contact the person who made the mistakes, let them know about it, point 'em at the Wiki, and try to get them to fix it - that way, you encourage them to learn to do it right. Of course, it might not always be possible to get hold of them.

One of MY biggest "things that bother me" about all this is that Waze allows you to edit without creating a forum account, which makes it hard to notify an errant editor. I really wish that they'd make a requirement that you MUST create a forum account, which has a confirmed working E-Mail address, before you're allowed to edit the map at any level. Not that that's likely to happen.... :(
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby cactusmonkey1966 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:07 pm

The links are old actually, so they've been fixed. Maybe I should post some examples here. Our level 6 agreed with me that an area I fixed didn't need split roads, but then again not to go back and eliminate the splits. Lots of effort to un split for questionable return benefit likely. Maybe the main point here should be before having major surgery to make the roads look like google, maybe check the wiki first, then the forums, then even post a permalink to get higher ranking opinions before changing something major.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:32 am

The policy already IS to read the Wiki before you start editing (which includes information about not splitting roads except in specific circumstances). The problem is, a lot of new editors don't seem to do so - they just start editing as soon as they discover they can.... :?

I think the first time you start up the editor, it should stick up a pop up with a link to the Wiki, with a note that you should read that before you start, and ask them to check a box that says that they understand this before it allows you to start editing. It still can't force them to do so, obviously, but it make it REALLY obvious to new editors (many of whom have just watched a video that Waze provides showing how easy it is to edit the map...) that there's a written resource that they should be going through first.

It'll probably never happen, though... :(
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby AndroidBC » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:09 pm

Yeah. I saw the edits in Henderson that split and lost all the data on a lot of roads. It is frustrating to see this happen. I also had to fix a horribly botched attempt to split Sahara from the 15 all the way west to the 215. Almost nothing was connected and all the major intersections were completely screwed up. Thankfully I caught it the same day the editor attempted this, so I was able to correct it before any changed made it live. I had Jemay help, and give a second look to make sure I fixed everything correctly. I understand that we all started out at level 1, but I would never have imagined to try something that crazy as my first edits. I started with parking lots and landmarks, and correcting MPs. And I found out I was doing things wrong, so I scoured the wiki and forums to find the right way to do things.

Anyway, it's just good to be able to vent some of these frustrations with fellow Vegas editors, even if nothing can really be done to stop it from happening again.

Happy editing.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby cactusmonkey1966 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:01 pm

I know I made mistakes when I started. When I thought I was right on doing something someone pointed me gently back to wiki and I discovered I was wrong. Even when I though I went back and fixed it, I used the highlighter script and found I was still not perfect. So it's a work in progress. I'm going to encourage any rank 1 or 2 I see editing with a user ID other than usaxxx through PM to discover the wiki by giving them a thank you and a link to what's applicable or at least to basics. I see experienced editors putting a hyperlink on the signature line of their posts. Great idea.

Even Map Editing QUICK Start Guide shows how to properly fix a dead end so the u-turn is red with no question mark, but they are all over the place done improperly. I've done them wrong too. So evidence proves that we can all do better. My link on my signature will now be
Map Editing Quick Start Guide
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:48 pm

Of course, the new editors in question need to actually be reading the forum for that to do any good. :shock: :D

But it's a good idea, nonetheless. ;)
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby AndroidBC » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:29 pm

I agree, they really need to make forum registration mandatory to edit, that way we have a way to contact wayward editors.

Btw, glad to have some peeps chatting in the NV forums. I disappeared from editing for a little while, but I'm back now trying to keep Vegas looking good.
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby SuperDave1426 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:39 am

I'm glad someone's there doing it. I broke out in hives every time I looked at the Vegas part of the map - I was on the verge of starting to pester Jemay for AM access to Vegas/Henderson just so that I could start clearing the board of all the false speed/red light cameras on it (they aren't legal in NV, in case you didn't know - so it's a good bet that any that show up are probably someone who saw a traffic cam and didn't know the difference). :lol:

It's not as bad in Reno/Carson City, though they do show up from time to time. And get nuked just as soon as they do. :mrgreen:
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Re: Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

Postby cactusmonkey1966 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:47 pm

abc836 wrote:I agree, they really need to make forum registration mandatory to edit, that way we have a way to contact wayward editors.
. Also thanks Superdave!

I believe that any requirement to read forums or to read the whole Wiki would intimidate many from trying their hand at editing. I think your idea of registering with a non usa username so we can contact new editors when we see something we can coach or encourage would be enormously more beneficial. We don't have enough editors in Las Vegas by the discussions in this Nevada forum. Let's help them instead of putting up potential roadblocks to getting them started. Once they realize how satisfying editing can be, they'll want to read Wiki more to become better editors.
Last edited by cactusmonkey1966 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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