Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clients

Image This is the place to discuss issues that are relevant for locations in the US. For any other discussions, please use the main forums.

Moderator: MapSir

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:06 pm

Thortok2000 wrote:Essentially, the standard is for the type of road to be fully given, and THEN the number. Is it a 'forest service' or is it a 'forest service road'?

It's like the difference between saying 'state highway 291' and 'state 291'.

Well, maybe so, but down here and up where I visit we call them "L A One" and "Emm Twenty-Five", respectively ;)
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5710
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1250 times
Been thanked: 1729 times

Re: That is a ____

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:17 pm

Thortok2000 wrote:Look at the road.

Point at it.

Begin the sentence: "That is a..."

I could let you play that game with many roads.
I-80 Bus W is a __________.
Broadway is a __________.

The Forest Service calls their own roads trails. But that is no guarantee that they are passable or reasonable. I don't know of any that should be used mid-route. They are roads only in the sense that a logging road is a road.
For safety reasons, equestrian travel is NOT RECOMMENDED on the following trails: Bear Canyon 12W08, Burkhart 10W02, Creekside 11W11, Devil’s Canyon 11W07, First Water 11W14.B, Indian 11W18, Kenyon Devore 11W13, Lower Sam Merrill 12W14.1, Lower Winter Creek 11W15, Middle Sam Merrill 12W14.2, National Forest 11W10, Nature’s Canteen 12W03A, Rim 11W28, Twin Peaks 10W04.A, Upper Sam Merrill 12W14.3, Upper Winter Creek 11W23, Zion 11W17 Station Fire Closure- Burton 12W19, Colby Canyon 12W23, Colby Canyon 12W23.1, Condor Peak 13W05, Dawn Mine 12W13, Fall Creek 12W02, Gold Canyon 13W06, Stone Canyon 13W07, Strawberry 12W05.2, Strawberry Peak 12W05.1, Tom Sloan 12W22, Trail Canyon 13W03, World of Chaparral 12W03.
-fs.usda.gov. (The word "trail" is omitted from the end of every name in this list, e.g., Trail Canyon Trail.)

It is not a Forest Service road, it is a trail designated by the Forest Service.
"FS-" = "Forest Service trail".

Thortok2000 wrote:I don't think it harms anything to have the couple extra words.

  1. It causes a delay until Waze gets to the part of the instruction that the driver really does need to hear.
  2. It makes instructions so long that Waze cannot say them twice in 500'.
    There are exits which have such long names that Waze doesn't finish them before it is time to repeat the instruction.

    With FS-12W05.2, an extra word makes it more cumbersome.
dbraughlr
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:24 am
Has thanked: 164 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby davielde » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:15 pm

sketch wrote:Haha, well, of course business routes and spurs are often going to have the same number.

It's not fair to explain the rules after the game is already underway... :o

@All re: forest service roads. Just call it "Forest Service" and be done with it. Vectorspace put the time in for the research, has spoken with FS personnel, and obviously has the experience to back up his initial recommendation of just using "Forest Service". Even though FS personnel use FSR and vectorspace doesn't care either way, a quick search yields five road maintenance levels. They are all called "Forest Service Roads" in the sense that the Forest Service maintains them, and they are probably so busy maintaining them that they likely don't have time to waste behind a desk arguing about what they are called... Level 5 is what we would typically think of as a road while Level 1 is the scary, vegetation-covered, overgrown trail no one wants to walk down let alone drive down (if they could...) at night. In addition to redundancy and the other arguments for using "Forest Service" instead of "Forest Service Road" with TTS, hearing "road" is a disservice to the standard driver because we already have a preconceived idea of what a "road" should be. And these "roads" run the gamut from highways to non-existent.

Sketch referenced "emm" for Michigan state highways, so maybe my ear is just trained differently, but when I hear something like "M-36", I know that it is a road maintained by the state even if it is not announced as a state highway. In this case, it is just an entity maintained by the forest service. Once someone hears "Forest Service" more than once, they'll get used to the instruction even if it initially sounds foreign to their ear. And chances are they won't have cell reception for many of these roads, so they won't hear it anyway...
Image
CM: USA
SM: Michigan, Vermont
AM: Ann Arbor, MI & Thunder Bay, ON
WME Michigan
davielde
Country Manager
Country Manager
 
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:01 pm
Location: Michigan, USA
Has thanked: 469 times
Been thanked: 755 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby Thortok2000 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 am

I-80-whatever is 'an interstate' and so it includes interstate in the name (abbreviation I).

I don't know what broadway is. It could very well be 'a broadway' and therefore broadway's in the name.

If the forest service roads are as bad as you say and shouldn't be used for through-driving, perhaps marking them 'private road' could be considered. This would prevent routing through them unless the destination requires it. And definitely 'dirt road' for the ones that aren't paved.

And to me, the key part of the instruction is not the number, it's the 'turn right' part. If I know I need to turn right, the name of the road I'm turning onto almost isn't even important at all, unless it's an intersection with unusual geometry, at which point I typically just look at my phone to see where it wants me to go.

I named the road into the parking lot where I live 'Really long name of absolutely no significance except for testing.' I then named another road in the parking lot 'another name of absolutely no significance but is still of use for testing.' It didn't have any pauses or abbreviations in there so they didn't take as long to say as I had originally expected (about 2 seconds each) but it had no problem announcing them in time. Particularly the 'turn right' instruction.

So again, I personally don't really care either way. I think 'forest service' is just fine. But as far as matching the standard, I think 'forest service road' is more consistent with other abbreviations.
Image
ImageImage
Area Manager of Greenville, SC! ^_^
Thortok2000
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:01 am
Location: Greenville, SC
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Re: That is a ____

Postby vectorspace » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:46 am

dbraughlr wrote:...It is not a Forest Service road, it is a trail designated by the Forest Service.
"FS-" = "Forest Service trail"...


Yes... this was another reason I truncated FSR-XXX to FS-XXX because they have trails and roads. I am not advocating mapping "trails" but wanted something that was more generic that could handle both if the path would work in Waze. I just wasn't sure of the exact protocol, if any, between "road" and "trail" at this point. The online GIS system let's you pick type of vehicle to see which roads it can travel on, so that's kind of cool.
vectorspace
vectorspace
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:05 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 420 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby vectorspace » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:57 am

Thortok2000 wrote:...If the forest service roads are as bad as you say and shouldn't be used for through-driving, perhaps marking them 'private road' could be considered. This would prevent routing through them unless the destination requires it. And definitely 'dirt road' for the ones that aren't paved. ...


It's good you brought up this topic, which is somewhat covered on the Forest Service Road topic here in the forum and on the new (draft) Wiki page I am starting to edit.

I want to point out that these roads should be marked as highways, primary streets, and streets where appropriate because three out of the five classification levels of the roads (maintenance levels) are completely passable. We don't want to mark too many as dirt roads or 4x4 roads because they will become unavailable to routing that may be critical especially in western states or rural areas. The whole point of the Wiki, discussion, and debate with other editors, and champs is so we make a good group decision on how to suggest best practices for editing these roads. I don't want to presuppose the final answer as my initial thoughts may be bettered by other ideas.

I suggest that other than TTS comments on Forest Service Roads, we stop discussion on this thread and move it to: https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=47655. The only discussion here should be about TTS.

I am in favor of keeping it simple and using FS-XXX from my background on this topic and the great discussion here too. Abbreviations are just that. We don't need formal English in all locations, although I have some appeal for the contrary arguments stated here.
vectorspace
vectorspace
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:05 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 420 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS)

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:33 am

"Interstate" is an adjective modifying the noun "highway". I-routes are numbered highways of the federal interstate highway system. "I" is an abbreviation for "interstate highway". The abbreviation suffices and makes the speech shorter. FS-whatever is a Forest Service route. "Eff ess" serves the same function as "eye". Turning it into more words really doesn't help anything.

Broadway is not merely in the name; Broadway is the name. It is not "Broad Way".

Thortok2000 wrote:I named the road into the parking lot where I live 'Really long name of absolutely no significance except for testing.'

Not much can be inferred from your test. Though it does appear to approximate the length of "Forest service road 16W02 point 2".

There are a few exits/wayfinders that I've come across more than once that are interrupted by the next instruction. I'll have to pin a map issue next time I hear one. I know that another announcement starts immediately after "to I-80 Bus E / SR-99 S / Reno / Fresno". (Disorganized to follow an unreasonable rule rather than read off the BGSs separately from left to right. The two signs are 'biz' I-80 E to Reno and SR-99 S to Fresno. "SR-99 S Reno" makes no sense and is a wasted instruction.)
dbraughlr
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:24 am
Has thanked: 164 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby Thortok2000 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:04 am

I was talking with txemt about this issue in another thread. Personally I would want to label where ramps split even if it's only 100 feet or so to the next turn and the label would be rather long.

Because I feel like the key portion of the instruction "keep right" is the very first thing said, and the rest is just gravy. Therefore the TTS is relatively unimportant semi-beneficial information but if it cuts itself off to give the next instruction, that's okay with me. In the meantime, the on-screen information is accurate and matches the sign at the split exactly.

If it doesn't cut itself off and fails to give the next instruction because the previous one is still going, that's a problem, and potentially worth shortening or removing the names of short-length ramps. Txemt was saying that's what happens and that's what I was trying to test. But I couldn't find an instruction long enough that it needed to be interrupted, even when I was trying to manufacture one. =(
Image
ImageImage
Area Manager of Greenville, SC! ^_^
Thortok2000
Area Manager
Area Manager
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:01 am
Location: Greenville, SC
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS)

Postby sketch » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:09 am

dbraughlr wrote:There are a few exits/wayfinders that I've come across more than once that are interrupted by the next instruction. I'll have to pin a map issue next time I hear one. I know that another announcement starts immediately after "to I-80 Bus E / SR-99 S / Reno / Fresno". (Disorganized to follow an unreasonable rule rather than read off the BGSs separately from left to right. The two signs are 'biz' I-80 E to Reno and SR-99 S to Fresno. "SR-99 S Reno" makes no sense and is a wasted instruction.)

You read left to right, top to bottom. Line one, then line two. 80 Business and SR 99, to Reno and Fresno. Maybe "SR-99 S Reno" doesn't make sense, but neither does "Reno Fresno". The slash is a separator. Go this way if you need to get to any of the following: I-80 Bus E, SR-99 S, Reno, or Fresno. Route names are more important to GPS navigation than city names, so they're read first.
ALL US EDITORS READ: New USA road type guidance
new orleans based • detroit enthusiast • usa country manager
2013 ford focus titanium hatchback 5mt • performance blue
Image Image
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5710
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1250 times
Been thanked: 1729 times

Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS)

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:54 am

sketch wrote:You read left to right, top to bottom. Line one, then line two. 80 Business and SR 99, to Reno and Fresno. Maybe "SR-99 S Reno" doesn't make sense, but neither does "Reno Fresno". The slash is a separator. Go this way if you need to get to any of the following: I-80 Bus E, SR-99 S, Reno, or Fresno. Route names are more important to GPS navigation than city names, so they're read first.


Perhaps you read that way. But I read column 1, then column 2. I read the left column, then the right column. But anyway, taking it as a single column is not the rule being applied here anyway. The rule is unrelated to any reading order.

The proper reading is "Biz I-80 E : Reno; or SR-99 S: Fresno". This is the only logical way to read the sign. But the next instruction comes so fast that "Keep right onto Biz I-80 E or SR-99 S" would suffice. It will be followed immediately be either "Keep left onto I-80 Bus E / Reno" or "Keep right onto SR-99 S / Fresno".

I also think that city names can be more important. A lot of road can be confusing for how they are name and numbered. But the name of a distant city rarely sends you onto the wrong road. So in this tangled interchange, I am looking for South Lake Tahoe, Reno, or Fresno.

I am not listening for what I need so much as Waze is suppose to tell me what sign I should follow. It doesn't do that. Perhaps the segment name should be blank so that Waze will read to me only the correct one of the two signs that I should follow.
Last edited by dbraughlr on Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
dbraughlr
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:24 am
Has thanked: 164 times
Been thanked: 98 times

PreviousNext

Return to United States

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users