Ferry Mapping page

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Ferry Mapping page

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:11 am

We have had a blank page for Ferries ever since I joined. Recently user Panther37 proposed a number of steps outlined on this talk page.

I have not spent any time on mapping ferries, so I did not want to pass judgment on these steps. I had previously thought that with time restrictions we could solve ferries with just that feature setting for both segment directions. Separately set toll if present.

I had not considered the other points Panther37 proposed, but many of them make sense. However the parking lot road seems to be a problem and unnecessary since the routing engine will shortly determine the average speed through that area and set the appropriate routing.

If we want to have this info on a separate page, that is fine and if we want to include it anywhere else, we can transclude it as desired.

Panther37 wrote:Here is how I have made ferries:
1. You need to be able to edit AT LEAST both ports. The entire area is preferable.
2. Turn on GPS points. It seems like people like to leave Waze on in the ferry.
3. Draw a road on the ACTUAL path the car would take.
3.1. Have the road right up to the part of the dock where it would load.
3.2. Draw the road using the GPS points to align with the usual path of the ferry in the water.
4. Road type should be "Parking Lot Road" because, ferries are slow. If there is a "High-Speed" ferry, upgrade the road.
5. Make sure the road is a "Toll Road" unless the ferry is free.
6. Don't forget to use time restrictions.
6.1. The first ferry of the day is when it should open.
6.2. The last ferry of the day is when it should close.
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby Timbones » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:44 am

Generally okay with the suggested steps. In the UK we use Service Roads for Ferries, as parking lot roads can't be used for routing. It's rumoured that we'll have a specific "Ferry" road type in the future.

Here's an example: Woolwich Ferry over the Thames. It's free, but part-time. Waze will route across here during the day, and will find alternative routes when it isn't open.

Here's another random example, and here are some routes in the Livemap.

Need to add some guidelines about when to map a ferry. Our general rule-of-thumb is to only map ferry crossing where you a) can buy a ticket on arrival, rather than pre-booking, and b) you stay in your vehicle during the crossing. None of the major Channel crossings meet either of these criteria, and so should not be mapped. The GPS tends to vary wildly too, making Waze pretty useless.
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 am

Waze has stated that they are working on ways to support Ferry (Fairy) properly. I suggest waiting to write this page until their system comes out.

Also, I've seen serious problems when a Ferry is mapped here in CT - which is why none of ours are mapped at this time.

There are GPS traces that run across Long Island Sound and they get REALLY wide in the middle (just about 5000 meters wide = ~3 miles). I don't think Waze will snap users to that.
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby CBenson » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:51 pm

I agree that the suggestions, except the suggestion to use parking lot road type make sense.

As far as whether to map them or not, length makes a big difference. Waze isn't likely to get as accurate speed data crossing Long Island Sound as it is crossing say the Wicomico River.
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby jemay » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:31 pm

The ferry system in Washington State works. For the most part, the Ferrys are classified as Minor Freeway and toll.
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:29 pm

jemay wrote:The ferry system in Washington State works. For the most part, the Ferrys are classified as Minor Freeway and toll.

What is "Minor Freeway"?
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby jemay » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:31 pm

The actual ferry crossings (over the water).
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby AndyPoms » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:28 am

jemay wrote:The actual ferry crossings (over the water).

Not what I meant... We don't have a "Minor Freeway" type in Waze...
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby jemay » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:41 am

Sorry.... Minor Highway .....
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Re: Ferry Mapping page

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:56 am

AndyPoms wrote:Waze has stated that they are working on ways to support Ferry (Fairy) properly. I suggest waiting to write this page until their system comes out.

Also, I've seen serious problems when a Ferry is mapped here in CT - which is why none of ours are mapped at this time.

There are GPS traces that run across Long Island Sound and they get REALLY wide in the middle (just about 5000 meters wide = ~3 miles). I don't think Waze will snap users to that.

I think we need some plan for these routes. Other countries are supporting them now and I get the impression they are working at some level.

Sounds like you saw problems. Can you give a quick summary of the issues for those who may not have seen the threads, or point to the main forum entry that discussed the problems you saw?

Why does not snapping to the route suggest we don't draw it in? I would think having something spanning the water to enable Waze to route across is better than it always suggesting go around or no route possible.


CBenson wrote:I agree that the suggestions, except the suggestion to use parking lot road type make sense.

I also agree the parking lot road type is a problem, but I am not sure it matters what we use from the standard list of routing roads. Seems it should match the road types on either side, but calling it a freeway does not meet the current definitions.

Timbones wrote:Need to add some guidelines about when to map a ferry. Our general rule-of-thumb is to only map ferry crossing where you a) can buy a ticket on arrival, rather than pre-booking, and b) you stay in your vehicle during the crossing. None of the major Channel crossings meet either of these criteria, and so should not be mapped. The GPS tends to vary wildly too, making Waze pretty useless.

I don't understand b) staying in your vehicle. Why does that matter?
I don't use ferries so I don't understand the multiple comments around the GPS varying and how that matters if the start and end are hard known points along the short to link the road between.
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