Split road and at grade connector editor "jollyness" ??

[the1who]

Just to chime in on a particular area I was messing with where someone, don't know if even posting in the NV forum yet, had created roads to fix a split. But in doing so, all it was was adding the road, it wasn't even connected to the highway. The one in particular I am talking about is US-93 by the only casino before the Hoover Dam. I did my best to clean up the split that was well, not really split. It should work better now. I'll go back to catching up on other NV posts here shortly.

[SuperDave1426]

I don't have any problem with what you're suggesting. When I see something odd in my area, I always try to communicate with that user/editor. However, if they haven't bothered to create a forum account, there is no method by which I can communicate with them. At that point, all I can do is clean up their mess. A lot of times, I end up not seeing any further edits from those people (edit and runs ). And even when they have created a forum account, I many times get no answer at all and checking their user profile shows that they've never logged in. That's why I'm always wishing that they didn't allow you to edit without first registering for the forum and providing a confirmed, valid E-Mail address (so that when they get a PM, they get an E-Mail telling them about it). It's a shame that it will probably never happen.

Re: usa xxx unidentified editors and area managers
WME highlighter from Timbones identifies
- Highlight segments by anonymous editors (usa_* and world_*)
Also can filter edits by editor user ID.

When I've noticed something odd by a given editor, I will often filter by that editor so I can see what else he/she has been doing. However, I don't see any option anywhere that highlights things done by anonymous editors.... Am I misreading something?

[cactusmonkey1966]

Re: usa xxx unidentified editors and area managers
WME highlighter from Timbones identifies
- Highlight segments by anonymous editors (usa_* and world_*)
Also can filter edits by editor user ID

So I guess really any editor could be checked but the area managers will have to keep on top of checking their areas.

Ultimately, if anyone is editing crazy things, and area manager should check their area once in a while and be communicating. If any new editor is reading this forum in Nevada and other forums then they should also be trying to learn more by reading wiki editing basics and learning how to ask questions of other editors in forums and of their area manager by clicking on the area manager layer and private messaging that area manager. Right? This is one big project and can be quite satisfying to make the maps better for every user.

[SuperDave1426]

I believe that any requirement to read forums or to read the Wiki would intimidate many from trying their hand at editing. I think your idea of registering with a non usa username so we can contact new editors when we see something we can coach or encourage would be enormously more beneficial.

Regardless of reading it or not, if they don't register in the forum, we can't PM them, and thus can't contact them to let them know of a problem. I've run into plenty of non-usa_* usernames that got me the big "no such user" message when I've tried to PM them. So yea, I think forum registration with a working, confirmed E-Mail address as a requirement to edit would benefit Waze as a whole.

Encouraging a new editor to read the forums is a good idea. Requiring them to at a minimum read the quick start guide is even better (though I'd settle for something which just really points it out with a URL the first time they go to edit). It's really not that big of a read, and it answers a LOT of the questions I've seen pop up in the WME chat window.

IMHO, if the person who gets it has an attitude along the lines of, "What? There's a simple set of instructions that I should follow when editing? Well I don't want to bother with that!" should be discouraged from editing.

We don't have enough editors in Las Vegas by the discussions in this Nevada forum.

Naw, they're probably all busy editing (or making bad edits) and don't bother with the forum.

Let's help them instead of putting up potential roadblocks to getting them started. Once they realize how satisfying editing can be, they'll want to read more to become better editors.

Human nature being what it is, some would, and others wouldn't.

Most new people don't read the Wiki, which shows them how to do it right, because they don't know about it. I know we won't get it, but something like a pop up the first time that provides you with a link to it and you having to check a box saying that you'll read it will at least REALLY call attention to the fact that it's there. There's no way to know if they've actually read it when they check the box, but by doing that you at least make it obvious to them that there's a guide which will give them the information they need for doing it right.

They aren't roadblocks - they're tools. And to do any job right, you need the right tools. And if you can do something that really makes them aware of the Wiki and maybe even encourages them to do so (the quick start guide isn't that big, for crying out loud).

And by encouraging someone to use the right tools sooner, rather than later, you show them neat things they can do that they didn't know about and get them making less errors that then have to be fixed afterwords - usually by an AM or higher who couldn't reach the errant editor since they don't have a valid forum login to PM to....

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that encouraging people to edit the map is a good thing. I just think that encouraging them to edit the map correctly is a better thing, so pointing them at the tools early on is the best way of handling it.

Encouraging them to simply start editing without providing any guidelines is the way that things like a Split-road Sahara that abc836 now had to clean up happens. "Well, it looks that way in Google Maps!" ....

BTW, if you and/or abc are not already using them, there's a few map-editing tools that I absolutely swear by: The WME Toolbox, WME Color Highlights, the WME Junction Node Fixer, WME Junction Angle Info and last, but not least, the WME Validator.

The above list is given in no particular order of importance to me. Like I said, if you guys aren't already using some of these, check them out. They make editing a LOT better for me.

[cactusmonkey1966]

I agree, they really need to make forum registration mandatory to edit, that way we have a way to contact wayward editors.

. Also thanks Superdave!

I believe that any requirement to read forums or to read the whole Wiki would intimidate many from trying their hand at editing. I think your idea of registering with a non usa username so we can contact new editors when we see something we can coach or encourage would be enormously more beneficial. We don't have enough editors in Las Vegas by the discussions in this Nevada forum. Let's help them instead of putting up potential roadblocks to getting them started. Once they realize how satisfying editing can be, they'll want to read Wiki more to become better editors.

[SuperDave1426]

I'm glad someone's there doing it. I broke out in hives every time I looked at the Vegas part of the map - I was on the verge of starting to pester Jemay for AM access to Vegas/Henderson just so that I could start clearing the board of all the false speed/red light cameras on it (they aren't legal in NV, in case you didn't know - so it's a good bet that any that show up are probably someone who saw a traffic cam and didn't know the difference).

It's not as bad in Reno/Carson City, though they do show up from time to time. And get nuked just as soon as they do.

[AndroidBC]

I agree, they really need to make forum registration mandatory to edit, that way we have a way to contact wayward editors.

Btw, glad to have some peeps chatting in the NV forums. I disappeared from editing for a little while, but I'm back now trying to keep Vegas looking good.

[SuperDave1426]

Of course, the new editors in question need to actually be reading the forum for that to do any good.

But it's a good idea, nonetheless.

[cactusmonkey1966]

I know I made mistakes when I started. When I thought I was right on doing something someone pointed me gently back to wiki and I discovered I was wrong. Even when I though I went back and fixed it, I used the highlighter script and found I was still not perfect. So it's a work in progress. I'm going to encourage any rank 1 or 2 I see editing with a user ID other than usaxxx through PM to discover the wiki by giving them a thank you and a link to what's applicable or at least to basics. I see experienced editors putting a hyperlink on the signature line of their posts. Great idea.

Even Map Editing QUICK Start Guide shows how to properly fix a dead end so the u-turn is red with no question mark, but they are all over the place done improperly. I've done them wrong too. So evidence proves that we can all do better. My link on my signature will now be
Map Editing Quick Start Guide

[AndroidBC]

Yeah. I saw the edits in Henderson that split and lost all the data on a lot of roads. It is frustrating to see this happen. I also had to fix a horribly botched attempt to split Sahara from the 15 all the way west to the 215. Almost nothing was connected and all the major intersections were completely screwed up. Thankfully I caught it the same day the editor attempted this, so I was able to correct it before any changed made it live. I had Jemay help, and give a second look to make sure I fixed everything correctly. I understand that we all started out at level 1, but I would never have imagined to try something that crazy as my first edits. I started with parking lots and landmarks, and correcting MPs. And I found out I was doing things wrong, so I scoured the wiki and forums to find the right way to do things.

Anyway, it's just good to be able to vent some of these frustrations with fellow Vegas editors, even if nothing can really be done to stop it from happening again.

Happy editing.