Two-way Ramps vs. Routing [Split from WME Validator]

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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby SuperDave1426 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:16 pm

sketch wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:People say that the "same endpoints" error is real. I am on the side of excluding the validation until it is shown that it is a still real problem, especially since the solution seem to be to insert an unneeded node node that will have to be removed after the bug is solved.

It is a bug known to many. There have been multiple threads about it. I can't find them because they were started without an understanding of why Waze was giving such bizarre routes (because we figured it out using those threads). I'm trying to find them now, but I don't know if I will. If you're not willing to take a few champs' words for it, I don't know what else to tell you.

Me, personally, my concern here is that it could very well be one of those things where at one time it was, in fact, a problem. But now it may not be; they may have fixed that issue. My question is: Have there been any recent examples of this being a problem?
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.6.3 (BETA) / 12.02.2014

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:31 pm

What's recent? I've seen it in the past three months. Not sure about the past two months.

Issues with two segments connecting the same two junctions goes back to the Cartouche days where the waze error codes could be solved by adding junctions to make sure that the same two segments didn't connect the same two junctions. Unfortunately waze staff has variously at different times told us that the extra nodes are not necessary and also told us to add them to "loop" roads to solve routing issues. There is additional discussion here, but its not so recent either.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby sketch » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:42 pm

CBenson wrote:I'm not sure what "the error" is. Seem to mostly be a display problem with the routes shown in URs as discussed for example here and here. It may actually effect the user when the endpoint of the route is on one of the two segments that connects the same two junctions.

It's more than just a display bug. I can't find it, but I remember a thread a few months ago about a one-segment road side parking area. The user in that case got an incorrect turn instruction.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:42 pm

CBenson wrote:It may actually effect the user when the endpoint of the route is on one of the two segments that connects the same two junctions.

This is one of the main issues with the "same endpoint" that affects end-users directly. The routing server may start the user on the other segment instead of the one the car icon is sitting on. To my knowledge, this bug has not been fixed in the server/app.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:48 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
CBenson wrote:It may actually effect the user when the endpoint of the route is on one of the two segments that connects the same two junctions.

This is one of the main issues with the "same endpoint" that affects end-users directly. The routing server may start the user on the other segment instead of the one the car icon is sitting on. To my knowledge, this bug has not been fixed in the server/app.

Agreed. Another is that waze may not recalculate the route if you deviate onto the other segment.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby sketch » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:49 pm

CBenson wrote:I'm not sure what "the error" is. Seem to mostly be a display problem with the routes shown in URs as discussed for example here and here. It may actually effect the user when the endpoint of the route is on one of the two segments that connects the same two junctions.

Your post, the second post, in the first thread you linked shows a user that followed the "display bug" route rather than the TTS route. I don't think it's reasonable to consider something as important as the route line being displayed incorrectly is so minor as to be considered merely a "display bug". Especially when the user isn't using sound. Is the user more likely to follow the arrow in the corner, or the route line on the screen?
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby CBenson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:02 pm

sketch wrote:
CBenson wrote:I'm not sure what "the error" is. Seem to mostly be a display problem with the routes shown in URs as discussed for example here and here. It may actually effect the user when the endpoint of the route is on one of the two segments that connects the same two junctions.

Your post, the second post, in the first thread you linked shows a user that followed the "display bug" route rather than the TTS route. I don't think it's reasonable to consider something as important as the route line being displayed incorrectly is so minor as to be considered merely a "display bug". Especially when the user isn't using sound. Is the user more likely to follow the arrow in the corner, or the route line on the screen?

Understood. But I've never actually been able to get confirmation from a user that they were actually following the route line in a conversation on a UR like this. I certainly can't say it doesn't happen, just that I haven't been able to verify it. On the other hand I can say that sometimes the purple route line in the UR is not the same as the purple line in the client, because that has happened to me. Notwithstanding, I think it is worthwhile to add the extra junctions at this point.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:55 pm

sketch wrote:If you're not willing to take a few champs' words for it, I don't know what else to

I do. You clearly misunderstood that I was talking about two-way ramps.


sketch wrote:All I'm saying is that your understanding of the penalty system may be wrong. Mis-understanding. I didn't blame you for it.


What basis do you have to suspect that my understanding might be wrong?
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.7.1 (BETA) / 20.02.2014

Postby sketch » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:03 am

dbraughlr wrote:What basis do you have to suspect that my understanding might be wrong?

Four and a half years on Waze and its forums have given me a pretty good understanding of how it all works.

An unsubstantiated rumor is not a substantial basis for a Validator warning.
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby dbraughlr » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:49 am

sketch wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:What basis do you have to suspect that my understanding might be wrong?

Four and a half years on Waze and its forums have given me a pretty good understanding of how it all works.


You ignored my question. In an earlier post, you made an absurd statement based on your ignorance of me. I'll accept this as your retraction and apology.

sketch wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:An unsubstantiated rumor is not a substantial basis for a Validator warning.

At least we agree on this much. :!:
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