Two-way Ramps vs. Routing [Split from WME Validator]

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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:55 pm

sketch wrote:If you're not willing to take a few champs' words for it, I don't know what else to

I do. You clearly misunderstood that I was talking about two-way ramps.


sketch wrote:All I'm saying is that your understanding of the penalty system may be wrong. Mis-understanding. I didn't blame you for it.


What basis do you have to suspect that my understanding might be wrong?
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby dbraughlr » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:49 am

sketch wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:What basis do you have to suspect that my understanding might be wrong?

Four and a half years on Waze and its forums have given me a pretty good understanding of how it all works.


You ignored my question. In an earlier post, you made an absurd statement based on your ignorance of me. I'll accept this as your retraction and apology.

sketch wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:An unsubstantiated rumor is not a substantial basis for a Validator warning.

At least we agree on this much. :!:
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Re: two-way ramp rumor

Postby dbraughlr » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 am

If would be fine for an administrator to break out the various diversions into a separate thread.
Last edited by dbraughlr on Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: parallel paths to the same endpoints

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:36 pm

bobthedog007 wrote:There is a road that passes a fast food drive through and a small loop around the building for the actual drive through, causing the same endpoints problem.

That actually explains a lot. Waze avoids routing you in a way that bring you back to the same junction going in the same direction. Apparently, the bug is that when it reroutes you, it includes the junction that you already traversed (or that is the other endpoint of the segment that you are on); it shouldn't. But because it does, you cannot be routed around a loop.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.6.3 (BETA) / 12.02.2014

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:31 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:I would like to see "2-way ramp" removed from the error list for US.


I agree. Like them or not they exist. I can't provide a PL at the moment, but look at I-75 Exit 14 Elm Ave in Monore Michigan for one example for both N and S sides.

Just painted lines. No physical divider even.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.6.3 (BETA) / 12.02.2014

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:54 pm

Around me, ramps have small highway maintenance signs that define them as ramps. If there sole purpose is to serve the freeway, and there is no local name implying that is a street, then I would call it a ramp.


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Re: Two-way Ramps vs. Routing [Split from WME Validator]

Postby GooberKing » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:21 pm

To put a twist on this topic, we've come across an interesting situation in CT that I think would work better as a two-way ramp. This ramp is currently mapped as two one-way ramps, despite the road not meeting requirements for a split road. I'm proposing we redo this as a two-way ramp, but make it with two connected segments: One named "to SR-68" and connected to N Colony Rd, and the other named "to US-5 / to SR-15" connected to Church St.

I think this would make the road look better on the map and make it easier to maintain, as it reduces segments and geometry nodes. I realize Validator will get an aneurysm over it, but is there any technical reason why this would not work? Or is this just one of those "That's just not how things are done" situations?
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Re: Two-way Ramps vs. Routing [Split from WME Validator]

Postby GooberKing » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:54 am

sketch wrote:I don't see any reason why this won't work, and I'm sure it's working fine. But it's also a bit of a hack, and in situations like this where the previous iteration was also likely working just fine and wasn't really any more difficult to maintain, well, all you're doing by reconfiguring it is losing a bunch of historical speed data.


Ehhh... To me, a "hack" is when you make the map more complex (and harder to maintain) in order to accommodate certain edge cases. This case is more about using unorthodox methods to simplify the map (by reducing geometry). Mostly just wanted to confirm that there's no technical limitations here, and it's just something that makes other editors feel squicky ;)
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Re: Two-way Ramps vs. Routing [Split from WME Validator]

Postby GooberKing » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:57 am

sketch wrote:There's also the fact that Waze 4.x shows the name of the current road on screen, and that can be potentially quite confusing for someone on the second half of that ramp, thinking, "Wait, I just got off SR-68!?"


Well, as I'm on Android and have yet to experience the glory of 4.x, I was not aware of that. As others have said, that certainly does change things, so I can change it back if you feel that will become an issue.

As far as simplicity vs simple to understand, if you go by the wiki, then Simplicity is actually the secondary goal, not necessarily making it simple for newer editors. There are plenty of cases where the "simple to understand" solution would make things overly complex (see: Parking Lots), so you gotta find a happy medium somewhere.

Obviously, it would be great if map editing were simple to understand, but you and I both know that's not the case, which is why we have all these rules in the first place. If anything, I would hope situations like this would cause newer editors to ask questions and learn more about how exactly their changes affect the map, thereby becoming better editors.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.6.3 (BETA) / 12.02.2014

Postby sketch » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:29 pm

SuperDave1426 wrote:Well, substitute "Primary Street/Minor Highway/etc" where I said "street" in my original question, then. :-)

Yea, ramp looks good given what it's leading up to; I get what you're saying there. However, in the grand scheme of things, what I saw in those examples look to me like a road leading up to the actual ramps going on/off the freeway and is not actually part of the ramp itself.

Having the validator not highlight a two-way ramp just because of the examples that I've seen so far seems like a good way of increasing the chances of someone missing a two-way ramp that actually shouldn't be two-way, without actually providing any real benefit.

A minor or major highway used in these cases would look quite bad in the client, especially in night mode.

Making editing slightly easier is not a valid excuse for making such a change to the map. Perhaps "name on two-way ramp" would be valid as a Note, and that would do a better job of showing two-way ramp segments that were actually set that way accidentally.
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