[Script] WME Validator 1.1.8 / 07.05.2015

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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.1 / 25.06.2014

Postby CBenson » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:38 pm

So I put a node on Vanda Ter. Validator is not showing an error for having identical adjacent segments (or any other error) to me. Is showing an error for you?
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.1 / 25.06.2014

Postby CBenson » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:59 pm

Well sure. When I started many were deleting nodes from the end of dead end segments using essentially the same logic. Then waze came in and said the end nodes were necessary. If the node serves a purpose, its not an extra node. Same here, when there have been complaints about routing to loop roads, waze says the solution is to add the "extra" node. If we only mapped primary streets and up, then there would be fewer places we'd have to check for errors. The goal here isn't to have fewer places to check for errors, its to have a map that works the best we can make it work.

Seems to me you can either change the your clean up process to comply with the wiki or get waze to change the way it handles multiple segments that connect the same two junction nodes.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.2 / 04.07.2014

Postby CBenson » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:13 pm

We were changing self connectivity at dead ends before the direct ability to edit them was in the editor and most seem to be continuing to do so now. If the underlying routing issues have not changed, I don't see why the validator check should change. Its no different than warning us about reverse connectivity on one way roads, which can't be directly edited in editor either.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.2 / 04.07.2014

Postby CBenson » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:23 pm

PesachZ wrote:Only because pass asked is to stop disallowing the u-turns at dead end nodes, so that they can see if their fix is working, and tweak it to work better anytime, its found to have failed.

Has staff actually clearly stated this, because if so I missed it? I continue to see the same issues I always have with u-turns allowed at dead end nodes. I also see no change with those that are currently disallowed. If turns aren't allowed now and they have removed the ability to directly edit them, then how do they expect the turns to be allowed for testing? There was some talk about them being all allowed with the removal of the ability to edit, but that doesn't appear to be the case to me.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.2 / 04.07.2014

Postby CBenson » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:22 am

Well imho there nothing clearly stated in the beta threads about what is really happening with U-turns.

I would also note that I'm incorrect that there there is no ability to dissallow U-turns at a dead ends. Even without JNF, Q seems to dissallow the reverse connection at a dead end. Although, oddly, if they are looking to have the dead end reverse connections enabled, W does not seem to allow the reverse connection.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.2 / 04.07.2014

Postby CBenson » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:11 am

Taco909 wrote:Unless we are in the UK, we are not supposed to do this anymore... we've been asked in multiple threads by various global champs and Waze staffers.
Validator needs to ignore the u-turn, and the "Q" function in JNF needs to be changed so it likewise ignores u-turns if they are at a dead-end.

I continue to disagree. The waze stance seems to be that they will* enable all the u-turns at which point they would like them to remain enabled to confirm that the short detour prevention mechanism does solve the problems with enabled u-turns at dead end. First, the whole point then will be to see if problems are due to the u-turn being either enabled or not. As they have taken the ability to see whether the U-turns are enabled away from us in the WME interface, I find it now somewhat critical that this indication remain in Validator so I can troubleshoot and report problems with enabled or disabled dead-end roads. The point is if waze is going have routing affected by a property that can be changed by editors, then we should be able to see that property.

* If "soon" means "we might get around to it someday" then "will" means what?
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.2 / 04.07.2014

Postby CBenson » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:46 am

More or less. Basically my position is that it absurd for routing to depend on some setting that we can inadvertently change (say by disconnecting a road that has become a dead end and leaving a rev con in place) where we have no way to see that property. What waze should do is not make routing decisions based on the condition of the reverse connectivity at dead-ends. In essence if all dead-end u-turns should be enabled, then they should remove the ability to have disabled u-turns in the model. If that's too much of a change at this point, they should completely ignore the property. Then we could ignore it too. But they don't. The idea that good routing or routing to a stop point on dead end roads is going to depend on having the dead-ends reverse connections enabled when they have removed the ability to easily enable them does seem absurd to me.

So yes, it would be better for Validator to highlight the disabled dead-end u-turns.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.3 / 04.08.2014

Postby CBenson » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:59 pm

ditchi56 wrote:- there's no reason to remove the link to Google maps since Google own Waze, they're not going to object to their own property being enhanced?
To the contrary there is no reason to believe that all of the Google map data suppliers entered into agreements that include using the data for waze.
ditchi56 wrote:- there's no reason to remove the link to OpenStreetMap since that prides itself on being copyright-free?
OpenStreetMaps is certainly not copyright free. See here and here.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.4 / 24.08.2014

Postby CBenson » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:38 pm

sketch wrote:
Taco909 wrote:Likewise, there may be some cases where it is desired to execute the turn instruction early, but to overlay the departing segment onto the feeder segment for a short distance.
As for the early instructions, IMO it's better as an editor to lay the departing segment just next to, but not directly coincident with, the continuing segment.


I agree in part.

My understanding is that if you overlap segments, no turn instruction is given. So overlaying a departing segments on the road it departs from to achieve an early instruction I think is futile. So I agree that such segments should not be directly coincident with the continuing segment.

I would go further however as In my personal opinion angles of less than about 20 degrees should be avoided whenever possible. My reasoning is that the road closure feature in the app is next to useless for intersections with small angles. But there is the question of whether we should be mapping to the make the road closure feature work or whether the road closure feature should be made to work with the map that conforms to reality.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 1.0.4 / 24.08.2014

Postby CBenson » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:11 pm

sketch wrote:I will not edit the map to enable a feature that doesn't really work anyway. That feature needs a lot of work, and it's not up to us to fix it.
Understood. I agree that the closure feature would remain deeply flawed even if we never used narrow angles on the map.
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