Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable roads

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Re: dirt roads

Postby vectorspace » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:04 pm

bart99gt wrote:...You have to think beyond the functional class in this instance and take into consideration the physical characteristic of the road. There is no point in having an avoid dirt road feature if we go about calling them primary streets or highways because that is how the local transportation department classified them....

What really needs to be done is Waze needs to provide a separate "unpaved" checkbox, similar to that of toll roads. ...


Perhaps we can bring this up at the Meetup. I don't see a lot of value debating this when we're mostly debating what to do in a constrained environment that doesn't let us easily handle the difference between well-maintained, low-clearance vehicle worthy, dirt roads and dirt roads that high-clearance 4x4 vehicles can only travel.

In the current situation, it seems to me that "Dirt Road / 4x4 Trail" mostly speaks to the 4x4 nature of the pathway. If that makes sense, then it seems that "street" must also include dirt roads that are well-maintained. But... even that doesn't handle all parts of the country because the condition of dirt roads can change dramatically with weather and maintenance during weather (such as in winter). Therefore you might want to keep the definition vague and one that can be interpreted locally until we can get Waze to add better differentiation here.
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Re: dirt roads

Postby bart99gt » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:51 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
miked_64 wrote:I routinely downgrade Minor Collector from Primary to 4x4 / Dirt Roads if they are not paved. This is the only way for the Avoid Dirt Roads option to work.


I am on the side that believes where our streets and minor highways are dirt, they can't be avoided anyway and should be set according to function so that they work correctly for the people who haven't set "Avoid dirt roads" (whatever that is really supposed to mean). The function of a road and its surface material are independent characteristics. Not all 4x4 trails are dirt. Abandoned paved highways can be 4x4 trails.


You have to think beyond the functional class in this instance and take into consideration the physical characteristic of the road. There is no point in having an avoid dirt road feature if we go about calling them primary streets or highways because that is how the local transportation department classified them. It is an invitation to URs because someone got routed down a gravel road that was classified as a primary street or highway, and wanted to avoid even a well graded gravel road because they don't want to chip the paint on their brand new $40,000 car. I live and edit in an area where there are quite a few dirt/gravel roads that are non-state maintained signed highways and collector routes.

What really needs to be done is Waze needs to provide a separate "unpaved" checkbox, similar to that of toll roads. It would be the simplest solution to the problem. Users that have no preference as to the type of road they drive on will get better routes because the road can be functionally classified properly, and users that wish to avoid such roads won't be routed down them. Win-win.
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Re: dirt roads

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:01 pm

miked_64 wrote:I routinely downgrade Minor Collector from Primary to 4x4 / Dirt Roads if they are not paved. This is the only way for the Avoid Dirt Roads option to work.


I am on the side that believes where our streets and minor highways are dirt, they can't be avoided anyway and should be set according to function so that they work correctly for the people who haven't set "Avoid dirt roads" (whatever that is really supposed to mean). The function of a road and its surface material are independent characteristics. Not all 4x4 trails are dirt. Abandoned paved highways can be 4x4 trails.
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Re: crossovers safe and useful?

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:47 am

CBenson wrote:I agree that the crossover looks like a accident waiting to happen. But I have no information on whether it is legal or useful.

Heading out of Van Horn westbound, traffic is simply forced onto the interstate. The crossover is the only reasonable route to get back into town or to cross between the north side and the south side of town.

There isn't much interstate traffic through here. The crossover is pretty easy to access. It is used enough that there are only yield signs to make it convenient for local traffic. I'm on the side of disallowing turns that are dangerous or requiring aggressive maneuvering. The crossovers around Van Horn are safe, imo.
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Re: crossovers necessary?

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:22 am

qwaletee wrote:Why wouldn't that be mapped like any other AGC?

Previous answer.
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Re: county roads

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:37 am

banished wrote:The rural south has county roads that are dirt.

Replace the word "south" with "area" and I'll agree.
If there aren't dirt county roads, either there are no county roads or there are no dirt roads.

California farm country has numerous "county roads" that are dirt rights-of-way along section lines used mainly to access fields. Some are in such disuse that the farmers plant crops on them.
Few will ever qualify as primary streets.

It is obvious that they function as streets because there are no other streets.
Many are less than a mile apart. We don't need rural areas hatched over with primary streets. We can save PS for the occasional paved road.

Keep it smart and sensible.
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Re: connector road type

Postby dbraughlr » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:11 pm

qwaletee wrote:There needs to be a compelling reason to have another type that functions similarly to ramps. If there is actually a difference in the way we want them display, spoken, or routed through, then let's create a new type, perhaps "Connector," instead of forcing Service Road into this, ah, service.

Existing service roads could be converted to street or left as connector. There would be no harm either way.

The primary difference is that Ramp is a highway functional class. Connector has a functional class comparable to streets.
The rules for exit/stay/turn for freeways/highways/ramps are not the same as for streets.
A transition between a street to a connector should not have as great as a penalty as that between a ramp and a street.
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Re: connector road type

Postby qwaletee » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:20 pm

dbraughlr wrote:Is there any chance that Waze would give us a "connector" road type that is the street equivalent of a highway ramp?
Service road could be converted for this use.


Service Roads are still in use. Tons of segments. I don't know if it could be easily repurposed.

There needs to be a compelling reason to have another type that functions similarly to ramps. If there is actually a difference in the way we want them display, spoken, or routed through, then let's create a new type, perhaps "Connector," instead of forcing Service Road into this, ah, service.

If there's no difference in function (and none anticipated), then we should just expand the definition of ramps to cover this use case. I haven't yet seen a rationale for why we can't use ramps for regular street connectors -- what harm would it do? I'm not being sarcastic, I would just like to see this articulated.
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connector road type

Postby dbraughlr » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:17 am

Is there any chance that Waze would give us a "connector" road type that is the street equivalent of a highway ramp?
Service road could be converted for this use.
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