Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable roads

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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Implications for this discussion...?

https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 49#p746349
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:14 pm

It seems to eliminate the need for the discussion, at all, to the extent any if it was meant to inform/fix routing decisions.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:23 pm

sketch wrote:On it.

edit: Done.


I just updated the spreadsheet (very easy) last night so now someone needs to transcribe the Georgia data I entered over to this web page. Relocating critical information, such as this, deserves a system-wide announcement. Did I miss that memo?

After the Georgia data is transcribed, someone needs to tell the spreadsheet owner to delete it so we don't have two competing, unsynchronized, data sources.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:13 pm

sketch wrote:Okay. Here is the final version of the revision.

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Road_types/USA/Revision

After throwing in the other and non-drivable portions (which should be revised separately), I reorganized and changed some of the headings, revised some of the explanatory text, and added another example to the mbox.


Per Meetup discussion, will there be a vote or have you and Andy already resolved any differences?
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:34 am

I received a return email from the GA DOT on my query about the broken links to their FC maps.

In response to your inquiry IMS000000065643 submitted on 4/16/2014 1:04:26 PM to Georgia Department of Transportation:

Thank you for contacting YOUR Georgia Department of Transportation. The Office of Transportation Data has retired the Functional Classification Maps. We're in the process of removing this information from the external website. People interested in this information should contact Transportation Data directly at (770) 986-1360.

We do appreciate you contacting our agency and please feel free to contact us again.

Respectfully,
Customer Service Unit
Georgia DOT


That is interesting given https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=214&t=89310. Maybe I'll call the number next week to see if they really mean the FC information will no longer be publicly available.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby banished » Sun May 04, 2014 5:02 pm

In the Southeast, we're handling it at a regional level instead of each state going rogue. It works because all 3 states are so similar in their road systems.
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Re: dirt roads

Postby bart99gt » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:51 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
miked_64 wrote:I routinely downgrade Minor Collector from Primary to 4x4 / Dirt Roads if they are not paved. This is the only way for the Avoid Dirt Roads option to work.


I am on the side that believes where our streets and minor highways are dirt, they can't be avoided anyway and should be set according to function so that they work correctly for the people who haven't set "Avoid dirt roads" (whatever that is really supposed to mean). The function of a road and its surface material are independent characteristics. Not all 4x4 trails are dirt. Abandoned paved highways can be 4x4 trails.


You have to think beyond the functional class in this instance and take into consideration the physical characteristic of the road. There is no point in having an avoid dirt road feature if we go about calling them primary streets or highways because that is how the local transportation department classified them. It is an invitation to URs because someone got routed down a gravel road that was classified as a primary street or highway, and wanted to avoid even a well graded gravel road because they don't want to chip the paint on their brand new $40,000 car. I live and edit in an area where there are quite a few dirt/gravel roads that are non-state maintained signed highways and collector routes.

What really needs to be done is Waze needs to provide a separate "unpaved" checkbox, similar to that of toll roads. It would be the simplest solution to the problem. Users that have no preference as to the type of road they drive on will get better routes because the road can be functionally classified properly, and users that wish to avoid such roads won't be routed down them. Win-win.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby bart99gt » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:10 am

sketch wrote:What you're saying is that Waze prefers Major Highways inordinately above other roads for shorter-distance routing. I have not found this to be the case, and it seems others haven't either, but even if it were true it would be representative of a different issue.


I actually fixed a UR a couple of weeks ago where Waze was doing exactly that, preferring a MH where other route choices exist. User complained Waze kept trying to send them to a MH that was another 5-6 miles up the road when there were some mH and primary street alternatives that were a shorter, and depending on traffic, often faster. That was one of the instances I had mind when I said that the urban classification maps often over-classify a road segment when taking into consideration Waze's routing temperament.

I also saw this, and corrected it, last year when making a trip from Memphis, TN to Gulf Shores, AL. Even when I got closer to the mH segment(US-45 Alt, which I upgraded to MH, as it should have been all along) it STILL wanted to force me over to the MHs which were a longer, and slower route to take. It looks like it took banished upgrading the last stretch of 2 lane US-45 between State Line and Mobile to MH to finally get Waze to route that way instead of trying to put you on a MH that was 15-20 miles further and a few minutes slower, just because it was a MH over a mH.

Waze's over-preference towards highways of any type vs. roads that may make more practical sense is the only issue I really have with its routing style. I can understand why it can't consider every possible route over a long distance, but perhaps it needs to be retrained to start considering lesser road types a little more either on short trips (less than 20 miles) or say within 20 miles of the destination.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby bart99gt » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:50 am

sketch wrote:Where was that first example? How did you fix it?

Memphis to Gulf Shores is a long distance route. That's a pruning problem, not a preference problem. It has nothing to do with "overclassification" in urban areas. What you're telling me is that upgrading the roads to meet this standard actually fixed the routing.


I really wasn't referring to the urban road classification on that particular example, but I will try to explain what I mean.

For rural classification, the FC system seems to work great. However, when it comes to urban classification, what the DOT classifies the road as, and what Waze expects the road to be, in my observation, diverge somewhat. I make the assumption that Waze shows such a strong preference for MH because it is expecting a road that is multi-lane, with a higher (probably 50+ mph) limit, and few controlled intersections. However, the urban classification system will classify a 35 mph road with red lights every half mile (or less) as a primary arterial, because it is an arterial road in the area it serves, but probably doesn't merit classification as a major highway because of what Waze is expecting the road to be. The UR I worked on in the Memphis area was an example of that, it had a user drive an extra 8-10 miles up a road to use a major highway vs. a primary street/minor highway (that I upgraded the primary street portion to minor highway) when under most conditions it probably makes better sense to take the non-major highway route because 1) the amount of truck traffic on US-78 inside Memphis often causes quite a bit of congestion and 2) where the user was eventually going the minor highway/primary street was actually a few miles shorter.

As far as the Memphis-Gulf Shores route was concerned, I tried having Waze re-calculate directions several times along the way to see if I could get it to stop forcing the major highway route, including one time just a few miles away from the city of State Line, MS, which is only about 100 or so miles away from Gulf Shores.

The only flaw I see in the way Waze "prunes" routes over long distances is that it almost totally neglects that keeping someone on a major highway or freeway may sometimes add a considerable distance to the drive, while neglecting that a minor highway may be the shortest and FASTEST route to the destination. It would just be nice if they'd make a change to the routing algorithm that would at least consider the speed data on a lesser road if keeping someone on a higher classified road means extending the driving distance more than a predetermined amount. I can hope though, right?
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Re: Re:routing

Postby bart99gt » Mon May 26, 2014 1:24 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
I highly doubt waze is going to divert you 40 miles to stay on higher classified roads if that specific primary road cuts 40 miles off your trip.

This sounds like a testable assumption.


It will. Last summer I took a trip to Gulf Shores, AL, from just south of Memphis, TN, and Waze wanted to route me off of US-45 right at the AL/MS state line to stay on a Major Highway (4 lane state highway) instead of taking the shorter route on US-45 which was still classified as a minor highway at the time. IIRC, taking that state highway was somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30 miles longer as it added a fairly significant dog-leg to the route. The Mississippi functional class map showed US-45 to be a minor arterial, so at least under the old system, it was correctly classified as well.

Link to the junction in question:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-88.45 ... 01&env=usa
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