Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable roads

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Re: Road Types (USA) - AGC exceptions

Postby dbraughlr » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:55 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
dbraughlr wrote:I would like to see the rationale documented for the exception for ramps to be used for at-grade connectors.

The exception for at grade connectors is in the Wiki here http://wiki.waze.com/wiki/At-Grade_Connectors#Exceptions.


-- Except that when this was posted, in that article there was not even mention of the new situations (in which to use a ramp for an AGC) listed in sketch's draft article (the subject of this thread).

davielde wrote:I believe that dbraughlr may be referencing the bit about jughandles and Michigan lefts specifically.


Which is correct. Those were the only situations mentioned in sketch's draft. But there was no link at the time I asked from sketch's draft page to any rationale in the wiki or even in a forum thread.

Later:

kentsmith9 wrote:Sketch, in this section it appears it would be good to add more in explaining why the Jug handles and MI left, in addition to the turn lanes, should use the ramp type. Perhaps we can link to the more detailed article that I have already updated here and include the Jug Handles and MI left to this page as part of the explanation.


This sounds like a suggestion that someone should document the rationale for the new situations in which an exception applies for a ramp as an AGC.


<Edited to explain time warp.>
Last edited by dbraughlr on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Road Types (USA) - AGC exceptions

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:24 am

dbraughlr wrote:I would like to see the rationale documented for the exception for ramps to be used for at-grade connectors.

The exception for at grade connectors is in the Wiki here http://wiki.waze.com/wiki/At-Grade_Connectors#Exceptions. Are you asking something different?

Ah maybe you are suggesting we explain "why" we need the ramp in order to get the "Exit right" instruction. That looks easy enough to add. Then we can link it to the ramp entry.
Last edited by kentsmith9 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: rephrased original statement
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Re: Road Types (USA) - AGC exceptions

Postby dbraughlr » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:11 am

I would like to see the rationale documented for the exception for ramps to be used for at-grade connectors.
Last edited by dbraughlr on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:routing

Postby bart99gt » Mon May 26, 2014 1:24 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
I highly doubt waze is going to divert you 40 miles to stay on higher classified roads if that specific primary road cuts 40 miles off your trip.

This sounds like a testable assumption.


It will. Last summer I took a trip to Gulf Shores, AL, from just south of Memphis, TN, and Waze wanted to route me off of US-45 right at the AL/MS state line to stay on a Major Highway (4 lane state highway) instead of taking the shorter route on US-45 which was still classified as a minor highway at the time. IIRC, taking that state highway was somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30 miles longer as it added a fairly significant dog-leg to the route. The Mississippi functional class map showed US-45 to be a minor arterial, so at least under the old system, it was correctly classified as well.

Link to the junction in question:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?lon=-88.45 ... 01&env=usa
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Re: Re:routing

Postby sketch » Tue May 20, 2014 11:21 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
I highly doubt waze is going to divert you 40 miles to stay on higher classified roads if that specific primary road cuts 40 miles off your trip.

This sounds like a testable assumption.

Actually I can answer that now — Waze will not use that Primary Street.

The resolution level (i.e., the distance from the beginning and end of a route at which a type is penalized) for Primary Street is 15 km for shorter routes and 50 km for longer routes (over 200 mi by air). 50 km is still less than 40 miles.

---
As for US-191 (for example).... If anyone might need to use that road for a long route, they should be able to do so. Using a Primary Street for this route means it's unlikely they will be able to. Users traveling along highways out west should be able to navigate along them. A competitor's GPS would do the same. Users making those drives should be prudent enough to know that they shouldn't wait until their tank gets to E to fill up, anyway.

--
US highways are set to Major in the national standard for a reason — mostly, for rural long-distance routing.
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Re: name inheritance

Postby sketch » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:56 pm

dbraughlr wrote:
CBenson wrote:This is true of any segment, isn't it?

It would be nice if we could turn off the inheritance property. I thought that it was supposed to be stopped for PLRs. So it might not apply to every segment type. But it does apply at least to highway and street class segments.

It applies to every segment type... for now. In the current beta client, it's been removed for parking lot roads, which is fantastic.
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Re: name inheritance

Postby dbraughlr » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:30 pm

CBenson wrote:This is true of any segment, isn't it?

It would be nice if we could turn off the inheritance property. I thought that it was supposed to be stopped for PLRs. So it might not apply to every segment type. But it does apply at least to highway and street class segments.
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Re: minimum construction standards for road types

Postby dbraughlr » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:55 pm

daknife wrote:But the Lincoln Hwy, the first Highway, does still exist running coast to coast and carries the designation hwy, even if the street is not a hwy by today's standards.

I think that the section that I cited (McConnellsburg, PA) is designated as US-30 for the simple reason that no other road has ever been built to replace it and it hasn't important enough to upgrade (unlike, say, between Breezewood and Bedford). It became US-30 because there wasn't anything better at the time. US-30 followed the Lincoln Hwy which followed existing roads. That's the history.

This section of highway retains the designation US-30 not for nostalgic reasons and certainly not because someone determined that it is a viable route for any trip longer than 100 miles, but because it wasn't replaced and it still is a (treacherous) highway.

[Edited to clarify that I refer only to the mH section of US-30 I previously cited; my remarks are not applicable to the Lincoln Hwy in general.]
Last edited by dbraughlr on Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: minimum construction standards for road types

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:53 am

sketch wrote:If you're suggesting to me that the AASHTO/Congress/US DOT keeps routes around for their historical significance alone, …

I never even thought that or any of the other thoughts that you somehow inferred that I was thinking/suggesting.
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Re: minimum construction standards for road types

Postby nzahn1 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:13 pm

dbraughlr wrote:I think I once counted that it changes direction 100 times in ~12 miles ... or something like that.

Looks like a fun road to drive. 8-)
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