Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable roads

Moderator: Unholy

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby bz2012 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:12 am

What about turn-arounds that allow non-emergency traffic but prohibit parking (except in an emergency)?

There are a couple on the causeway across Lake Pontchartrain that have signs that make that point.
State Manager, Louisiana
bz2012
Map Raider
Map Raider
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:32 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, La
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby bz2012 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:24 pm

Have had some UR's complaining that they should not be mapped at all (even though legal) because it is hazardous to make a u-turn there, with the high speed traffic. :(
[Darwin Awards candidates fail to take traffic into account.]
State Manager, Louisiana
bz2012
Map Raider
Map Raider
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:32 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, La
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:44 pm

I believe that this is a worthwhile effort.

I would revise

The following roads are to be classified, at minimum, as Minor Highway:
Roads classified in FHWA's functional classification as Other Arterials.
Roads in state, D.C., and territorial highway systems.


to read

The following roads are to be classified, at minimum, as Minor Highway:
Roads classified in FHWA's functional classification as Other Arterials or Minor Arterials.
Roads signed according to a state, D.C., or territorial highway system.


My concern with "Other Arterial" is that some functional lists use the terms "other principal arterial" and "minor arterial." In those lists the word "other" only appears with "principal" which could be confusing when determining what "other arterials" are.

With regard to state numbering systems, one issue that hasn't been addressed is the difference between official designation and how the road is actually signed. In my experience, the signage deviates from "official designation" for clarity and to better reflect reality on the ground. So where signage conflicts with "official designation," I suggest following the signage. In Maryland every road that is the responsibility of the state highway administration to maintain has a Maryland route number. But typically if the road is not a significant route from point A to point B, the road is not signed with the route number (and can be classed a local road by the MD SHA). Similarly my recollection in Pennsylvania is that many roads are given 4 digit numbers, but these 4 digit route numbers are not used in the keystone route number signs and thus should not be considered minor highways. So to me what really matters is the sign on the road.
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:19 pm

Do we need to define at-grade connector? Specifically are roads at different grades required to meet the definition of "freeway" and "ramp." This comes up for roads like this. In this case there are no intersections that permit traffic to cross US-50. US-50 has an unbroken median. This combined with the fact that there are only limited access points to US-50 - that is the businesses do not have driveways that are directly served by US-50, makes me think this is a freeway. However, Duke St, Thomson Creek Rd, Castle Marina Rd, Cox Neck Rd, Dominion Rd, Chester Station Ln, Piney Creek Rd, S Piney Rd, Dundee Ave, Main St, Piney Narrows Rd etc all provide access to US-50 at junctions where there is no grade separation, because there is simply no access provided from one side of US-50 to other on these roads. There are BGSs at these exits on US-50 just like at the grade-separated interchanges.

So in the freeway definition it is stated that there should be "no at-grade intersections." I think that US-50 in this stretch meets the requirement for no at-grade intersections and the exit and entrance roads are not at-grade connectors and are thus properly ramps. However, given the current guidance and the proposed guidance if you interpret these access points "at-grade" then the US-50 would be a major highway and the exits and entrances should not be ramps.

I would state that if you can't cross the highway without either passing over or under the highway then all exits and entrances with acceleration and deceleration lanes along that highway should be considered "grade-separated."
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:48 pm

It is classed as "other freeway expressway." Thus you would need to apply:
The following roads shall be classified as Freeway :
* * *
Roads classified in FHWA's functional classification as Other Freeways and Expressways which meet the following criteria:
Entrance via ramps only, typically with acceleration zones.
Exit via ramps only, typically with deceleration zones.
No at-grade intersections.
No stop lights (except sometimes on ramps).
No stop signs.


Thus, the question becomes: what is an "at-grade intersection."
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:14 pm

Good point, that would justify keeping the exits and entrances as ramp type.

But that logic would also confirm the exits and entrances as "at-grade connectors" that meet the exception to be typed as ramps. I could certainly see some editors making the argument that would mean that the freeway definition of "no at-grade intersections" is not met as you are applying the rules of "at-grade connectors" to the exits and entrances. That argument would result in US-50 being typed as a major highway here.

The advantage I-75 has is that it is an interstate. Thus under the proposal it is a freeway and thus all entrances to and from the freeway are defined as ramps.
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:17 pm

sketch wrote:There's a nuanced difference between the definitions here.

A freeway has no at-grade crossings

I like that way of putting it, but don't see "crossings" in any of the proposed pages.

sketch wrote:and no intersections (and no immediate access to adjacent property). There are no at-grade crossings on US-50 there. An "intersection" requires that the roads themselves intersect, not via ramps, but on their own. So, those aren't "intersections", and that's a freeway. There's nothing to stop a ramp from being at-grade.

For at-grade connectors, if we don't want to have to rely on the "signed, numbered exit" exception (which should be expanded to encompass all BGSes regardless of number), we can either (1) define it circularly, saying that every road providing entrance or exit along a freeway must be a ramp,

It is the circular definition that is causing me to worry. A ramp is a entrance or exit along a freeway (or something of a similar style on a highway) and a freeway only has entrances and exits via ramps.

sketch wrote:or (2) change the definition of "at-grade connector" slightly, to include only those at at-grade crossings or intersections. The latter (2) is logically more sound, but then what do we do with situations like this?

I was thinking about the RCUT under discussion with respect to the proposal to add the MUTI guidance to the general wiki. I agree that highways using RCUTs should be typed as highways not freeways. Although, in Maryland these roads using them seem to be classed as OPAs, so under the proposal they would be typed as major highways anyway.

I'm leaning toward just using the "at-grade crossing" language to define a freeway rather than trying to define what intersects with what. I would argue that there are no at-grade crossing on US-50, thus it is a freeway and the at-grade connector rules do not apply to entrances and exits of a freeway. I would argue that for the RCUT and your example the main road does include at-grade crossings thus even if classed an expressway it should be typed as a major highway. For the RCUT you can cross the highway and you do it without a bridge by making the right/U/right, thus it is an at-grade crossing. For connectors to a major highway where there is no bridge (grade separation), one should look to the at-grade connector guidance.
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:26 pm

sketch wrote:"Crossing" to me means the road crosses from one side of the freeway to the other; i.e., it doesn't end/begin at the freeway. The reason "Intersection" should also be included is that it also covers roads that do end/begin at freeways — but only those that do at, well, intersections. Perhaps an "intersection" should be defined as "roughly perpendicular", where a road and another actually intersect, without the exclusive use of connectors or ramps.

Understood, but I guess I'm still not convinced that intersections that are not crossings need to be considered in typing a highway/freeway. Can't we simply define a freeway and a major highway by the roads that cross from one side to the other and let roads that do end/begin at freeways take care of themselves. If roads don't T in at traffic lights (which would disqualify the road as a freeway) can't the road still be a freeway if there is an intersection but no crossing. Should US-50 be a major highway because of this intersection? If so how much of US-50 should be typed as major highway?
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:13 pm

sketch wrote:I don't envision anyone really having a problem with that being called a freeway any more than they might have had before.

I absolutely agree. I think the proposal is an improvement. Please take my comments as constructive criticism intended to make them better than the current guidance. The reason that this section came to mind is that there were questions regarding what this road should be typed under the current guidance. I was hoping to clarify the issue under the current proposal.

I'm not too worried about the the Baltimore Annapolis Rd intersection, there are always going to be the oddball exceptions. So maybe we don't need to anything else.
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby CBenson » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:39 pm

qwaletee wrote:There's already code to treat unnamed ramps as if they were named with the same name as the next named segment on the route.

This isn't a ramp property. This is true of any segment, isn't it?
Regional Coordinator: Mid-Altantic, US
Verizon, Droid Turbo, Android 4.4.4, Waze 3.9.4.0
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 748 times
Been thanked: 1815 times

PreviousNext

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FzNk