[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

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[Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:20 am

We have a number of threads covering some changes to the Junction Style Guide (JSG) right now.

Sketch, myself, and others have discussed some upcoming changes we are all proposing, so I wanted to have a thread where we could coordinate them.

In general the overall JSG is much too large to follow all the way through. We have proposed moving some of the larger sections into subpages and leaving the JSG as a master index to everything related to junctions.

I currently have some updates I am proposing for the following sections:

The new basepage https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Junction_Style_Guide/Revision will move into the original JSG pagename. It will only include the changed content from the sections currently holding:
The basics (reformatted the orignal)
Diverging roads (moved content to a subpage)
Crossing roads (moved content to a subpage)
Controlling turn instructions (this may need to get incorporated into changes already being proposed by sketch.)

These pages in these links become subpages of the JSG linked from the JSG. I have reformatted these sections to be a little more organized and edited the content a bit for clarity.

Any other content from the current JSG page or other changes proposed by sketch or others in other sections would not be overwritten.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:23 am

The Interchange Style Guide is going through some modifications as covered in this thread. I linked the two in case there are any changes that overlap.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby CBenson » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:33 am

I said something similar in the other thread, but I don't believe the geometry guidance laid out in this JSG. I have never found an intersection configuration that gives an instruction at 33 degrees where you could eliminate the instruction by changing the angle to zero degrees. I do not believe that having a departure angle between 0-21 degrees does anything to suppress navigation instructions.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:33 am

I don't know that I agree with splitting "diverging" and "crossing" roads into separate articles. Both should be incorporated into a single subpage on "Intersections", IMO.

The most glaring content omission from the current JSG as far as I can tell is that of guidance for split road intersections. There is none. The section on the bowtie is the only thing there relating to split road intersections at all; while that section explains the bowtie well, it kind of comes out of nowhere, as there's nothing before it suggesting even the possibility of an intersection with one or two split roads.

Anyway, as of now I'm working on the Interchanges subpage. This will incorporate the current Limited Access Interchange Style Guide and the "Ramps", "Highway/Freeway Junctions", and "Limited Access Interchanges" sections of the current JSG, so you can leave those sections alone. With your approval, I will incorporate the "Interchanges and ramps" section from the JSG revision page I made into your revision page so we can keep it all together. My draft Interchange page can also be moved to "Junction Style Guide/Interchange" or "/Interchanges" if you prefer.

"Interchanges" vs. "Interchange", what do you think? It seems that "Interchanges" fits better into the feel of our Wiki, but it'd be nice to be able to link to [[interchange]] without having to use pipes/link names.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:13 am

CBenson wrote:I said something similar in the other thread, but I don't believe the geometry guidance laid out in this JSG. I have never found an intersection configuration that gives an instruction at 33 degrees where you could eliminate the instruction by changing the angle to zero degrees. I do not believe that having a departure angle between 0-21 degrees does anything to suppress navigation instructions.

That is correct, as is the converse — you can't force an instruction you don't get at 5 degrees by changing it to 40 degrees if Waze still considers that the "best continuation". 45° is the only nonzero point where anything changes.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:48 am

CBenson wrote:I said something similar in the other thread, but I don't believe the geometry guidance laid out in this JSG. I have never found an intersection configuration that gives an instruction at 33 degrees where you could eliminate the instruction by changing the angle to zero degrees. I do not believe that having a departure angle between 0-21 degrees does anything to suppress navigation instructions.

Feel free to adjust what you believe is correct. I was only putting in what I was gathering from past data in the Wiki and what I thought was the case. It could easily be incorrect.
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:56 am

sketch wrote:I don't know that I agree with splitting "diverging" and "crossing" roads into separate articles. Both should be incorporated into a single subpage on "Intersections", IMO.

I am open to that. If you want to take the content I have for the two separate pages and combine into the one page you are doing, no problem. If you only want to use parts of it, no problem. I am not married to my changes as they are. I just need the whole of the JSG to be smaller than it is today, while not losing the content.

sketch wrote:The most glaring content omission from the current JSG as far as I can tell is that of guidance for split road intersections. There is none. The section on the bowtie is the only thing there relating to split road intersections at all; while that section explains the bowtie well, it kind of comes out of nowhere, as there's nothing before it suggesting even the possibility of an intersection with one or two split roads.

Sounds like we could use one if you are so inclined to work on it.

sketch wrote:Anyway, as of now I'm working on the Interchanges subpage. This will incorporate the current Limited Access Interchange Style Guide and the "Ramps", "Highway/Freeway Junctions", and "Limited Access Interchanges" sections of the current JSG, so you can leave those sections alone. With your approval, I will incorporate the "Interchanges and ramps" section from the JSG revision page I made into your revision page so we can keep it all together. My draft Interchange page can also be moved to "Junction Style Guide/Interchange" or "/Interchanges" if you prefer.

Sweet.

sketch wrote:"Interchanges" vs. "Interchange", what do you think? It seems that "Interchanges" fits better into the feel of our Wiki, but it'd be nice to be able to link to [[interchange]] without having to use pipes/link names.

The page name should include the plural if we are talking about more than one type. JSG could have just been [[Junctions]] if it only described them. Since the page is all about how we recommend to lay them out, it becomes a style guide. If the Interchanges page is just a branch from the JSG, then we don't really need "style guide" added on the end. Therefore it becomes [[Junction Style Guide/Interchanges]].

We can have [[Interchange]] and [[Interchanges]] be redirects to [[Junction Style Guide/Interchanges]] with no problem.

Let me know if that was confusing. ;)
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:07 pm

Nope, understood! :D

I want to bring up the "Simple is better" text:
When representing junctions, intersections, interchanges, cross roads, corners, etc., the Waze map does not need to perfectly match the road layouts it represents. The primary goal is to represent the real world as simply as possible in the maps and only introduce complexity in the maps to address complex issues.

While this isn't necessarily bad, our number one goal should be accurate and non-misleading navigation instructions. Simplicity is fine, but not at the expense of navigation. Something with a tone like "Keep the map as simple as possible without sacrificing accuracy of navigation instructions."

Related but distinct, I think the "intersections" page will need a brief explanation as to when to include turn lanes and when not to, with a link to the at-grade connectors page. There doesn't seem to be any mention of them at all except in the example on "controlling turn instructions".
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby sketch » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:07 pm

I combined the "diverging" and "crossing" roads pages into one: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Junction_Sty ... ersections
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Re: [Page Update] Junction Style Guide

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:31 pm

sketch wrote:I combined the "diverging" and "crossing" roads pages into one: https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Junction_Sty ... ersections

Looks great to me.
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