[Script] WME Validator 1.1.19 / 04.06.2016

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Re: right turn should be allowed

Postby berestovskyy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:18 am

sketch wrote:Wait, I have a problem with the "no right turn" check. Wouldn't it call for erroneous enabling of turns like the right turn from this segment?


Ok, how about that:
2. No right* turn (for any drivable road)
* for the right-hand traffic
Report/highlight the segment if at the node:
a) there is an up to 85° right turn
a1) and either this segment OR that right turn segment is longer than 300m (~1000 ft)
b) and that right turn segment is also drivable and non-private
c) and that right turn segment is not marked as closed
d) and the connectivity between those two segments is possible (road directions), but not enabled

Would that new a1) condition be sufficient to detect connectors and other possible exceptions?

BellHouse wrote:I don't get the idea behind 2.

The idea is that in right-hand traffic countries the right non-acute turns are mostly enabled except some rare situations. So we can assume that disabled right turn is an error.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby qwaletee » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:30 pm

BellHouse wrote:
berestovskyy wrote:1. No road continuation (for Primary Streets and up)
2. No right* turn (for any drivable road)
3. Geometry points are too close (for any drivable road)

1. and 3. seem ok for me.

I don't get the idea behind 2. You want to mark all right/left turns that are disabled (red arrow)? What's so special about a turn of around 90° angle? :?


I think the idea is that while it is common to restrict left turns, it is uncommon to restrict right turns, unless there is a very sharp angle.

In gridlocked areas they are sometimes restricted. Sometime,s they are also restricted if there is a complex traffic pattern with traffic coming form too many directions, or if the street after the turn is very short.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby BellHouse » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:14 pm

qwaletee wrote:
BellHouse wrote:
berestovskyy wrote:2. No right* turn (for any drivable road)

I don't get the idea behind 2. You want to mark all right/left turns that are disabled (red arrow)? What's so special about a turn of around 90° angle? :?

I think the idea is that while it is common to restrict left turns, it is uncommon to restrict right turns, unless there is a very sharp angle.

Ok, now I got it, thanks for your explanations.

I'd say we give it a try. If

1. the offset from 90° angle, and
2. the minimum length of one of the segments

were parameters to the new check, this could be fine-tuned in each country. Since we might expect some false-positives from this check (which we do not think of now), it might be a good idea to implement the check and have it disabled by default. Then the mass of editors will not be bothered by the false-positives, and some of us testers could turn it on manually.
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Re: right turn should be allowed

Postby sketch » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:18 pm

berestovskyy wrote:Ok, how about that:
2. No right* turn (for any drivable road)
* for the right-hand traffic
Report/highlight the segment if at the node:
a) there is an up to 85° right turn
a1) and either this segment OR that right turn segment is longer than 300m (~1000 ft)
b) and that right turn segment is also drivable and non-private
c) and that right turn segment is not marked as closed
d) and the connectivity between those two segments is possible (road directions), but not enabled

Would that new a1) condition be sufficient to detect connectors and other possible exceptions?

a1) seems like it would be sufficient.

What do you mean by "up to 85°"? I would think it should apply for any angle (45º < angle ≤ 90º); i.e., any that would give a "turn right" instruction.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby berestovskyy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:35 pm

Please welcome one more language:

Localization and translation package* for Germany by BellHouse:
For Chrome browser: Chrome Web Store
For Firefox/Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey: userscripts.org
* Note: you also need the main package installed.

The package will be useful for any German-speaking editor, since it translates user interface, problem descriptions and solutions (once you switch WME into German), while applies the rules of the country you are using it in.

Many thanks to BellHouse for the great job!

If you would like to translate Validator into your language, please have a look at this forum post
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Re: right turn should be allowed

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:06 pm

sketch wrote:What do you mean by "up to 85°"? I would think it should apply for any angle (45º < angle ≤ 90º); i.e., any that would give a "turn right" instruction.

Ignoring the detail that departure angles from too sharp all the way to <135º give a "turn right" instruction, I still think that the point is that a turn should be expected to be allowed to any road between, say 45º and wherever the best continuation is.

In short, a road which merely requires "stay right" still should have its turn enabled- at least this is what I was expecting. So if the road bears hard left, a turn of straight ahead should be expected to be permitted even if 185º.

I think another way if saying this is that any road that can be reached without crossing traffic is the opposing direction, why is the turn not allowed?
(Yes, bypass roads like AGCs are such examples. I'm not asking. I'm just saying that this is the essence of the question that the validation asks.)
Last edited by dbraughlr on Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby sketch » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:15 pm

Understood.

Although I will mention that departure angles between 135° and 180° will also give a "turn" instruction, but as angle increases the turn is substantially less likely to be allowed in fact. That's partially covered by the "too sharp turn angle" check, but there should be a neutral area between the two checks where Validator recommends neither enabling nor disabling that particular turn, since the answer in such cases will likely depend on circumstances.

In the meantime, I thought of a circumstance where basic right turns are disallowed. check out Street View on the service road at Aurora and Orion here — to prohibit drivers from cutting through the neighborhood when exiting the Interstate.

Though those segments are actually already highlighted by Validator with a warning...
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Re: right turn should be allowed

Postby dbraughlr » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:55 am

I was referring to the angle as measured from the current segment, not in degrees of turn.
So the angles I gave need to be subtracted from 180 to get degrees of right turn, e.g. 180° - 185° = -5° right turn (a turn slightly left of course).
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby sketch » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:07 am

Got it. So we are pretty much in accord, then. I believe convention is to refer to the angle between your heading before turning and your heading after turning, so, straight and slight right would be perhaps 20°. This is the "45°" referred to all over the place.
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Re: [Script] WME Validator 0.9.4 (BETA) / 30.03.2014

Postby berestovskyy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:55 am

sketch wrote:check out Street View on the service road at Aurora and Orion here — to prohibit drivers from cutting through the neighborhood when exiting the Interstate.

Wow, very nice and rare example. I just wondering how can we detect such a situation... A turn from a Ramp/Highway to the regular street or lower? Any ideas?

Although the map is perfectly correct, there are few possibilities to suppress the warning in Validator at the moment:
1. Add a 24/7 time based turn restriction from highway to the street.

2. Make an exiting piece of the screet one way.

3. Make the screet private.

I know it's ugly but a tempory solution. So, shall I exclude inward connectivities warnings for the turns from highways/ramps to streets/parking lots/dirts?
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