Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable roads

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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby KB_Steveo » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:44 am

Is there a place where we could add to the FC criteria (visible - i.e. not buried in text) that says something to the effect that when a FC map stops a higher street type as soon as it gets to an interchange, that the higher street type should be carried on to the far end of the interchange?

I got a question about a UR I left from one editor, and I've been finding and having to correct a lot of these lately (and set my local editors straight ;) )

ex: This segment was downgraded to mH by my local guy, when updating to the new FC map for the area.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby KB_Steveo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:14 pm

t0cableguy wrote:KB do you have overlays? i have this issue often and we have to explain this too, often the FC stops immediately at the freeway instead of carrying over to the opposite side interchange. I could probably make some images for this issue.
I have this [ img ] and a PL.

If you are referring to an add on for WME, then no.

*edit. Here's the original FC map.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby KB_Steveo » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:55 pm

qwaletee wrote:This sounds like a good addition to explore. In general, segments in box intersections and the like need to follow similar rules to AGC, which is coarsely summarized as the lower of the two highest segment types being connected.

So, for example, usually the end of an MH roadway that turns into, say, mH, will be connected at an intersection that contains another MH or a Fwy. In that case, the crossing segment needs to be MH for continuity. If for some reason the MH ended at a junction that was all mH for the other connections, the crossing segment would not need to be MH.

Also, for AGC's, it would be nice to have some more defined examples of when not to add an AGC. Possibly highlight "When in doubt, leave it out." in bold.
Or add some type of instruction saying that if an AGC, with no physical median, results in a straight segment that is shorter than X ft/m...

SE Wisconsin is pretty crazy on them example: This is normal to find there, and it's kind of hard for me to lay down the law, since there are a lot of places in Milwaukee where they are genuinely needed... then new editors see them, and start adding them where they aren't, and seasoned editors still have flashbacks of MP's showing up EVERYWHERE (back in WME's infancy) and start adding them. There have been a few intersections that had right turn AGC's, in rural areas, that I noticed in the client, that I'm sure wouldn't create an MP now, but Bigbear was convinced that they would show up if he removed the AGC's, so I didn't push the issue.

Then they're everywhere.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby KB_Steveo » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:44 pm

t0cableguy wrote:for AGC's I think HOW to draw these segments is just as important as WHEN to draw them.

You mean using the JSG/odd angle principle to make sure the AGC says "turn" instead of "keep"


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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:55 pm

Proposal on the page naming:

Since this is a US centric page, when we go live with it we should make it [[Road types/USA]]. This will allow a page above it called [[Road types]] that directs to each country. I proposed this in a different thread and I have been working on moving pages that are country specific to subpages to prevent inter-country user confusion.

On your point of this only being drivable roads, this is perfect because the current page is way over the limit of good Wiki practice for content size. We may want to consider

  • [[Road types/USA]]: Brief overview of road type selection with (at least) two sections linking to the following subpages.
  • [[Road types/USA/Drivable roads]]: Your new proposed content.
  • [[Road types/USA/Non-drivable roads]]: The other content you did not yet update.

I am open to debate on the Drivable vs Non-drivable naming if there is something more applicable here that I might not be thinking about.

I will further review the rest of the content over the next day or so. I see the page came from an older version you had been working on. Did you already update your page with all the current content of the latest version of the current page? I am not saying I see any difference, just thought I would confirm.

(Note: I added the construction template linking to this forum in case someone ran across it and wanted to make changes. Feel free to modify the template parameters as you desire.)
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Re: Road Types (USA) - AGC exceptions

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:24 am

dbraughlr wrote:I would like to see the rationale documented for the exception for ramps to be used for at-grade connectors.

The exception for at grade connectors is in the Wiki here http://wiki.waze.com/wiki/At-Grade_Connectors#Exceptions. Are you asking something different?

Ah maybe you are suggesting we explain "why" we need the ramp in order to get the "Exit right" instruction. That looks easy enough to add. Then we can link it to the ramp entry.
Last edited by kentsmith9 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: rephrased original statement
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Re: Road Types (USA) - AGC exceptions

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:16 am

dbraughlr wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:Are you asking something different?

Yes. Neither of the exceptions is listed there.
kentsmith9 wrote:Ah maybe you are suggesting we explain "why" we need the ramp in order to get the "Exit right" instruction.

No.

I am afraid your responses are too cryptic to understand. Please use more words.
I have made changes to https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/At-Grade_Connectors#Connector_is_a_signed.2C_numbered_exit that I believe are helpful in describing why these at grade connectors should be ramps.

If you are looking for something different please spell it out.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:12 pm

Sketch, in this section it appears it would be good to add more in explaining why the Jug handles and MI left, in addition to the turn lanes, should use the ramp type. Perhaps we can link to the more detailed article that I have already updated here and include the Jug Handles and MI left to this page as part of the explanation.
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:38 pm

sketch wrote:Kent, I will do that. Is there a thread concerning that at-grade connectors page? Seems like we should add jughandles, unnumbered exits which are signed for more than just the name of the immediate street to which the exit goes, and Michigan lefts to it. I think it's only been discussed on the Michigan forum, but I think the MUTI page is ready for inclusion into the Wiki — along with a redirect from "Michigan left".

No current forum threads specific to this topic that I know about. Found these two older ones that I think would be OK to resurrect or link to a new thread. I did not read all the way through them, but they are probably appropriate to consider.
Jughandles
Ramps - When are they not a ramp?
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Re: Road Types (USA) – comprehensive overhaul of drivable ro

Postby kentsmith9 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:05 am

sketch wrote:I think the MUTI page is ready for inclusion into the Wiki — along with a redirect from "Michigan left".

I am sorry, but I did not pay enough attention to this statement earlier.

Yes, let's get this into the forum as its own proposal. I started a separate thread to have the page reviewed and to get the general page created from that one.
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