[Updated] House Numbers in WME

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[Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:44 pm

I've provided some more detail and clarification in the [[House Numbers in WME page]]. Specifically, I added a section called "Errors" which deals both with error messages and forcing together in once section.

The "Forcing" section no longer exists, as the important info is now in the Errors section. What was left looked like miscellaneous tips and info, so I added a Tips heading.

Now, I need to find out where to find links in the wiki which might have pointed to the old "Forcing" section.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby Bigbear3764 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:37 pm

I remember seeing a post that the champs were going to find out from waze what added to WME causes a tile update. Did we find out if adding house numbers causes a tile update or do we have to nudge the road to get the update. Seems like we do, we have done a lot in Chicago and have had to adjust roads to get them to show in search.


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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:34 am

I added a link from [[WME Errors]] to the new House Number error section.

bigbear3764 wrote:I remember seeing a post that the champs were going to find out from waze what added to WME causes a tile update. Did we find out if adding house numbers causes a tile update or do we have to nudge the road to get the update.

Currently no update from house number edits. https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Map_tiles#Trigger_updates
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby Bigbear3764 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:30 am

kentsmith9 wrote:Currently no update from house number edits. https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Map_tiles#Trigger_updates


That's what I was looking for, thanks.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby jdeyoung » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:04 pm

OK, now I'm really puzzled. If I'm understanding this right, not only must we bump addresses on a street but ALSO touch the street itself to make searches work correctly? The oddity here is, when you "touch" the address - it shows the connection point where the address should be "on" the street. Could this also possibly imply that simply touching the street itself could cause the address to be properly routed to the correct street itself? The issue doesn't just occur with alleys, it also occurs with corner addresses too. If touching the street itself could trigger tile/search updates that would be FAR simpler than having to do both.
In any case, correcting the auto-placed house numbers screams for a more systemic fix - or automation potential.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Two separate issues.

1) House numbers that have been modified will be searched first by Waze, but only if the tiles are updated that hold that segment and house number.

2) Tile updates occur for the reasons listed on that page noted above. If nothing in a tile causes an update on its own, the system will eventually just update the tile automatically. This can take 10+ days depending upon what else the servers are processing that cycle.

If you happen to move a street with a house number that has complaints and then suddenly it is working, it seems plausible that someone else actually updated the house number location before you, but did not trigger a tile update. Your movement of the segment forced the tile update that now uses the newly moved house number.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:52 pm

jdeyoung wrote:In any case, correcting the auto-placed house numbers screams for a more systemic fix - or automation potential.

Waze does not want to assume that the auto-placed house numbers are correctly placed. So, because they already match an existing (I think google's) address location, that provider's address will continue to be the "master" until the Waze address is adjusted to fix it. Logically, this makes really good sense.

The downfall here is that the stop point, for many non-residential (within parking lot areas), and some residential (long shared private drives) is NOT where you want to end navigation. The stop point could be several turns or 1/2 mile away from the actual address, so adjusting these house numbers within Waze actually reduces the usability and effectiveness of routing, and why I often prefer to fix those kinds of address at Google Maps and leave the Waze # alone, or delete it. The stop point placement is just that bad, IMO.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby jdeyoung » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:13 pm

It seems then that there is an impasse. In residential areas - which of course neither waze or google actually "knows" - we have probably millions of address numbers that are not guaranteed to be closest to the streets for which they actually apply. Google is usually smart enough to temper the GPS coordinates to align with the actual street of the address. When it is not, the exceptions can be addressed on a one-off basis in google. Unfortunately, the waze algorithm can't/doesn't use street name as part of the consideration and routes to the closest drivable point to the gps-only coordinates. I would bet with confidence that the vast majority of routing directions in Chicago to residential addresses lead to the alley and not the street. And most wazers simply shrug their shoulders because waze gets them "close enough". But for a vocal minority of wazers that are in services businesses that are based on addresses in (more than likely) unfamiliar locations for each and every place they need to visit on a daily basis, we get a steady stream of URs complaining about constantly being routed to alleys and/or wrong streets. Again, getting a large number of editors to pitch in should be what waze is all about, but the house number tool isn't as reliable as it need to be for that to happen either.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:49 am

The idea is that we'll only actually edit or add house numbers if we know them to be correct. So a user-added or user-confirmed Waze house number is generally the most trustworthy point of information we have.

For now we can "solve" it, more or less, by telling editors not to add house numbers for business with parking lot roads or for houses with shared driveways.

Automating the confirmation of Waze house numbers, or allowing the use of non-confirmed imported house numbers, will cause enormous problems not only because it will disallow us from making that assessment but also because some of the house number data imported into Waze is truly, truly awful.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby jdeyoung » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:23 pm

sketch wrote:Automating the confirmation of Waze house numbers, or allowing the use of non-confirmed imported house numbers, will cause enormous problems not only because it will disallow us from making that assessment but also because some of the house number data imported into Waze is truly, truly awful.

As I indicated, that leaves us at a bit of an impasse. I've lived in/around Chicago all of my life, and can look at addresses on a street and know they've all been mass-imported (like little toy soldiers all lined up) and placed too close to the alley. I'm not suggesting waze itself have this knowledge and do so automatically nor does it make sense to wait for each and every resident along the street to report a UR that their address is incorrectly too close to the alley. Should we wait for the hundreds of thousands of these to be reported? A better approach to solving these ad-hoc after a user reports a wrong location for the umpteenth time would be to solve these for entire streets at a time with a proper tool. It was a massive effort to mobilize editors in the area to attack the problem of alleys created from basemap as streets. Now multiply that by 40-50 addresses per block of all the residential streets and you get an idea of the amount of effort needed.
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