[Updated] House Numbers in WME

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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby sketch » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:17 pm

jdeyoung wrote:As I indicated, that leaves us at a bit of an impasse. I've lived in/around Chicago all of my life, and can look at addresses on a street and know they've all been mass-imported (like little toy soldiers all lined up) and placed too close to the alley. I'm not suggesting waze itself have this knowledge and do so automatically nor does it make sense to wait for each and every resident along the street to report a UR that their address is incorrectly too close to the alley. Should we wait for the hundreds of thousands of these to be reported? A better approach to solving these ad-hoc after a user reports a wrong location for the umpteenth time would be to solve these for entire streets at a time with a proper tool. It was a massive effort to mobilize editors in the area to attack the problem of alleys created from basemap as streets. Now multiply that by 40-50 addresses per block of all the residential streets and you get an idea of the amount of effort needed.

I don't think we have to be an an impasse, though, necessarily.

A single process that would make some users' lives a lot easier but that would also mess things up really badly for other users simply cannot be employed.

I'm not against a tool that would allow an editor, upon verifying that the house numbers on a particular street are correct, to confirm a large series of address points with one click. That would make your lives a lot easier without confirming a bunch of bad imported data.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby tonestertm » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:49 am

jdeyoung wrote:... they've all been mass-imported (like little toy soldiers all lined up) and placed too close to the alley.
This makes me want to state a blanket clarification, for the sake of any beginning editors who may read this. My apologies to any who may be bored by it.

Unlike the way it handles Google markers, Waze routing Does Not Care where the Number portion of a House Number sits. The important routing work is done by the Stop Point. The Number bubble is just a placeholder, visually cuing us humans to which building the Stop Point with that address, ties.

What Waze does care about, is that the Number has been confirmed by it being handled, even if it's placed right back in the very same spot it started. This movement indicates that a human has reviewed the imported info and says it is correct. Simply highlighting a House Number without moving it does nothing toward increasing its confidence/trust level. (You can verify this by returning after a Save and seeing that the Last Edited by indicator does not show up after only looking at a given HN.)

Generally, any time I open House Numbers and see all the "soldiers lined up", they're nearly always in the correct order, but rarely in the correct position, indicating that the Stop Points will be in the wrong position also. I will spot check a number of addresses in Street View, or pull up GIS, and proceed to center the Numbers on the buildings they belong with, further adjusting any stop points as needed. Unless, as Alan indicated, that would present issues with buildings not located directly along their street. My pet peeve is that the houses at the end of dead-ends/cul-de-sacs are always left off, and require some sort of followup, but it's all part of the game.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion. :)
Last edited by tonestertm on Fri May 09, 2014 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Thu May 01, 2014 12:53 pm

A few comments, since I've been doing a lot of address editing lately.

Background, I've been travelling to businesses that I've never been to, and making small changes where appropriate. Adding a drive thru here or there, moving the address marker from the middle of the parking lot to the entrance of the business, or more often than not, adding an address marker if the location is in the suburbs.

One thing that I've found through experimentation (Pulling the numbers I'm using here out of my ass, I don't have an example in front of me) is that if it's a strip mall, and the entire mall is "house number" 33, but each business has a suite number 105, Waze doesn't accept 33 as the address. It *does* accept #33-105 as the "house number". And this is when there are NO building numbers already associated with the building. I don't think this is in the documentation. If so, I've failed to find it...

As for the large number of buildings in Chicago that have poorly placed address markers, causing people to be routed into alleys, I've found that the more markers on a given street (and in Chicago that can be quite a few) Waze is more likely to "break down" and fail to allow me to move the markers. In a recent example, I asked a local level 5 for help, and his reply was "sometimes that happens" and made an attempt to move them as well. Between us with multiple attempts to correct the placement, still only about half the block on the street is done.

(And yes, I verified the numbering is correct, it was just placed slightly to close to the alley so you get routed incorrectly. After adjustment in the example, I was routed correctly.)

Also, I'm curious about how landmarks are involved now that they also have addresses. Since we're now landmarking just about everything I've begun to add landmarks for these businesses (usually restaurants) and have been including addresses. So when I do a search for "Sushi House", what point is Waze going to route me to, if there is a conflict between the street address it finds and the landmark. (Shouldn't happen, but I'm thinking about resolving future problems.)

Just my thoughts. And probably worth what you paid to read them. 8^)

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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby jdeyoung » Thu May 01, 2014 2:43 pm

tonestertm wrote:Unlike the way it handles Google markers, Waze routing Does Not Care where the Number portion of a House Number sits. The important routing work is done by the Stop Point. The Number bubble is just a placeholder, visually cuing us humans to which building the Stop Point with that address, ties.

I do apologize for my lack of precision. The placement of the number bubble (untouched) only represents the point where google will route to until the bubble is touched and available to users only when the tile is updated (as discussed elsewhere). The oddity here is that the stop point was a feature introduced later (I think) after the addresses had already been placed from the mass-import - and yet all of the stop points are generally anchored to the proper street - not the alley. So waze had some knowledge in that process.
So, out of habit when touching addresses, I move the bubbles closer to the street - and then subsequent editors have a visual cue of addresses which have been touched along a given street.
That point is actually key, since the stop point of the address behaves similarly to the newly exposed "place handle" which shows the point within the "area place" that you would be routed to - like gas stations and larger areas.
Thanks for making the clarifying point about the bubbles location. ;)
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby sketch » Thu May 01, 2014 8:08 pm

krikketdoug wrote:So when I do a search for "Sushi House", what point is Waze going to route me to, if there is a conflict between the street address it finds and the landmark. (Shouldn't happen, but I'm thinking about resolving future problems.)

The Place. House numbers are only used if you search for an address (and if it is matched with a Google address).

Say you add a Place named Sushi House with the address 3333 Jefferson Hwy, and also a 3333 house number point on Jefferson Hwy. Searching and routing to Sushi House will take you to the Place. Searching and routing to 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the house number stop point (if the Google-Waze match works properly).

They don't work with each other. So if you have only added the 3333 house number, searching for Sushi House will take you to the Google/Foursquare/whatever point for Sushi House, while searching for 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the Waze address point (assuming it works properly). On the other hand, if you have only added the Place for Sushi House with the 3333 Jefferson Hwy address — but not a 3333 house number — and search for Sushi House, you will get the Place in the Waze tab; but if you search for 3333 Jefferson Hwy, you'll get the Google address marker location.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Thu May 01, 2014 8:45 pm

sketch wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:So when I do a search for "Sushi House", what point is Waze going to route me to, if there is a conflict between the street address it finds and the landmark. (Shouldn't happen, but I'm thinking about resolving future problems.)

The Place. House numbers are only used if you search for an address (and if it is matched with a Google address).

Say you add a Place named Sushi House with the address 3333 Jefferson Hwy, and also a 3333 house number point on Jefferson Hwy. Searching and routing to Sushi House will take you to the Place. Searching and routing to 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the house number stop point (if the Google-Waze match works properly).

They don't work with each other. So if you have only added the 3333 house number, searching for Sushi House will take you to the Google/Foursquare/whatever point for Sushi House, while searching for 3333 Jefferson Hwy will take you to the Waze address point (assuming it works properly). On the other hand, if you have only added the Place for Sushi House with the 3333 Jefferson Hwy address — but not a 3333 house number — and search for Sushi House, you will get the Place in the Waze tab; but if you search for 3333 Jefferson Hwy, you'll get the Google address marker location.

This is good. We should put something specific like this in the Wiki or under the FAQ.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Thu May 01, 2014 11:11 pm

Absolutely. I can see a few problems here.

I'm going to use my own home as an example, but as I don't want to give up my address on a public forum, I'm going to make up some information.

I live at 323 N Wolcott Ave. The house is on the corner of Wolcott Ave. and Blanchard Dr. While the address is on Wolcott Ave, the house faces Blanchard Dr., and people should be routed to Blanchard Dr. In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Now for a more complicated example that I ran across today.

I was driving down a street to make a delivery to a local business. This business was in a strip mall with a complex parking lot. I was routed to the stop point, and then Waze quickly recalculated how to get into the lot and to the door of the business.

Depending on the shape, size, and number of entrances to the lot, this can create bad directions. The way around this would be to be able to move the end point to the correct part of the parking lot road, but from the previous example of where I live, it seems like Waze is unable to do that.

Net effect: We're back to guiding people to the general area of their destination just like most GPS systems do, but then the usefulness degrades quickly (and IMnsHO unnecessarily).
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri May 02, 2014 12:33 am

krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Fri May 02, 2014 1:10 am

kentsmith9 wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?


I can't move it back because Waze won't let me move it to a street that is different than the street Waze thinks the endpoint should be on.
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Re: [Updated] House Numbers in WME

Postby krikketdoug » Fri May 02, 2014 1:26 am

krikketdoug wrote:
kentsmith9 wrote:
krikketdoug wrote:In the past Waze has routed me correctly. (I'm guessing that is due to Google's influence.) Tonight, when I looked at the map, the stop point is back on Wolcott Ave. I am unable to move it "back" to the correct position on Blanchard Dr.

Why can you not move it back and what is it that changed to route you to the wrong location now?


I can't move it back because Waze won't let me move it to a street that is different than the street Waze thinks the endpoint should be on.


Just a random thought, but maybe moving the endpoint off the designated street to another street is considered "forcing" an address change? Before it was just moving a marker which didn't need a 3rd level Editor...

Dunno. Just commenting as the additional thoughts hit me.
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