[Page Update] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:07 pm

CBenson wrote:1) Yes, I believe that the keep-right at the middle junction point is not given where the left option is restricted to prevent through routing. My understanding was that these instructions used to be given, but then stopped. There was thus some question whether we should really be editing to make the instruction come back or whether waze should just bring the instruction back. I've heard nothing recently that indicates waze will bring the instruction back.

2) The detour prevention mechanism is only effective if the distributor/collector lanes don't exceed 5 kms. Is there any utility for these methods for very long distributor/collector lanes?

3) Waze did just confirm that one example of a routing off/on the freeway was due to the fact that the detour prevention is just a penalty that was overcome by very heavy traffic. Of course, we don't want waze to route off/on to avoid very heavy traffic (that's kind of the point). So the question becomes: is it worthwhile to employ both methods to increase the penalty as much as possible?

  1. I believe we should be editing to reflect reality where possible without a degradation in nav instructions (e.g., where they would suggest illegal movements). Editing to reflect reality will necessarily bring the instructions back (and the instructions are very important). The phrasing "editing to make the instruction come back" makes it seem like it would be a "hack" to do so, when really, the current Wiki suggestion is the "hack" here, one designed to prevent a problem that is essentially no longer a problem.
  2. Maybe not, but it has no bearing on this case. The current Wiki suggestion only envisions a single interchange; using a turn restriction at some point along a long collector-distributor to avoid detours without disallowing any proper routes would only work with some configurations and isn't something that should be suggested, I don't think. It'd take consideration and some experience to be able to tell where that'd be viable, if at all.
  3. Not if routing will be adversely affected. The "stay to the" instruction in question on a collector-distributor cloverleaf is crucial — you necessarily have to change lanes either way. No instruction pretty much means "keep going", which is basically always going to be wrong.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:02 pm

2: I agree with your gut, I think. That kind of thing should be generally locked at 5 anyway. It's also not the kind of specific situation where a set standard is necessary or helpful even for experienced users (e.g., wayfinders).

3: I have been doing so, anyway. I'm not sure it's really necessary anymore, but the only time it'd matter is if someone gets off the freeway without meaning to — or changes their mind halfway down the ramp. I can't say I haven't done the latter. It can indeed lead to weird routing, especially in rural areas, but it isn't an oft-encountered situation, and most importantly, Waze will never give weird routing without some kind of action by the user (taking the ramp).
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:29 am

I agree that the "Complex Collector/Distributor" section should be removed outright, along with the second image (the recommendation) for "Collector/Distributor Cloverleaf".

I also believe that the "bottom" alternative for the cloverleaf should be removed. Ramps should begin/end within a few yards of the last point where one might legally exit/enter the roadway. I don't believe any DOT would place an entrance and exit ramp that close together in reality. I don't see any convincing reasons to deviate from reality as it is applied to every other ramp.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:50 pm

I've started work on this page as a subpage of the JSG.

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Sketch/Interchange

It could alternately be named "Interchanges" or "Interchange Style Guide", but "Interchange" makes it easier to [[link]] where relevant.

What I've done so far: (1) split the pages, (2) rewrite the introductory text, (3) change and regroup the headings.

What I plan to do: (1) remove the sections/guidance I spoke of above, (2) rewrite a lot of the text, (3) add guidance on where to put the ramp junction on the freeway/highway, including a screenshot with an aerial... and probably more.

I also created a JSG in my user space to carry out the related changes to that. I removed the content which was copied over to the Interchange article. Future, I intend to split off the at-grade intersection rules into a separate article, "Intersection(s)".

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/User:Sketch/ ... _and_ramps
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:25 pm

CBenson wrote:If you are planning on revising the text regarding Exits, I would like some confirmation on some of the Exit geometry statements.

"The entering segment and one exiting segment must be one of the three Highway/Freeway types."
I don't believe that it is a requirement for "one exiting segment" to "be one of the three Highway/Freeway types" to get an exit instruction. In any event, this in directly contradictory with the description of using ramps for wayfinders, which states that if both exiting segments are ramp type you get a keep left and exit right.

"The other exiting segment must be of the type Ramp"
This is also not true. Exiting to a primary street or street segment will also give an exit instruction.

Correct. To get an "exit" instruction, the previous segment must be a highway/freeway type, and the "exiting segment" must be (1) to the right and (2) either ramp type or {...}.

{...}: I can't remember if it has to be primary street/street, or if it just has to be a lower type than the previous segment. In other words, does MH --(25°)--> mH give "exit" or "stay"? I feel like this used to be in the Wiki but it wasn't explicit in the relevant article.

"The Highway/Freeway exiting segment must have close to a zero degree departure angle from the entering segment."
I don't believe that this is requirement. First, as noted above, you don't even need a "Highway/Freeway" exiting segment. Second, I believe that you will get the exit right instruction as long as the ramp is not the best continuation. That only means there has to be another segment with a departure angle of less than 45 degrees.

"The Ramp exiting segment must have a departure angle of between 20 and 30 degrees from the entering segment."
This is not true either. Any angle less than 45 degrees will work. This includes zero degrees. Although, the exit instruction is not given if the ramp segment overlaps with other exiting segment (in other words, both exiting segments can't be zero degrees).

Correct. I would want to change this anyway to recommend something close to a 20° angle, but also to note that anything between 1° and 44° should work.

"When those conditions are met, the navigation will present an "Exit Right/Left" instruction when the ramp is to be used . . ."
You only get an "Exit Right" in right-side traffic jurisdictions and an "Exit Left" in left-side traffic jurisdictions.

Correct.

These are primarily the types of edits I am intending to make.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:41 am

That's a hell of an interchange design. I will include it, thanks!
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:33 pm

I would also posit that there's a significant interest in presenting such a strange configuration as such in the client. The reassurance that I'm not actually going the wrong way would be comforting.
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:47 pm

Made some significant changes to the collector/distributor section.

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Limited_Acce ... utor_lanes
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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:18 am

Oh, thanks. I meant to do that.


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Re: [Broken Link] Limited Access Interchange Style Guide

Postby sketch » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:40 am

Crud. I just now realized that I made the changes to the current Guide rather than to the new page. I have brought the changes over to there, including some additional content/clarification.
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