Regarding Railroads

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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:57 pm

How often do we get to thumbs-up the removal of a feature that a lot of people want?
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby Dave2084 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:21 pm

Why do we want it removed again?
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:52 pm

Because it is is still out there for notes, and no suitable replacement has been implemented.

Can we please remind them also that railroads should not be implemented in the client until the note feature has been in the editor for, say, 6-8 weeks? I can just see them releasing the note feature in the editor the same day they release a client that splashes railroads again, leaving no time to clean up all the old notes. Even better, I would love to give them some algorithm for identifying the leftover notes so they can give us a report highlighting them. I would think any railroad segment that is disconnected at both ends, or any two railroad segments that are connected to nothing but each other, or any non-drivable segment with a name over 30 characters, is suspicious.
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby Timbones » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:56 pm

qwaletee wrote:Because it is is still out there for notes, and no suitable replacement has been implemented.

As I've said many times, URs work perfectly well for notes, without abusing railroads. Go on, give it a try!
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:24 pm

As I and others have said before as well, they have the distinct disadvantages of
  • being easily (accidentally!) hidable through URO+ or layers
  • too easily closed incorrectly (by yourself or anther editor who is not clued in)
  • no locking
  • no text until you click
  • not easily distinguishable from other URs
  • only work as a point, no way to create shape (arrows, especially double-headed arrows, enclosing shapes, outlines)

Neither use is ideal. Bu I find URs to be a much poorer mechanism for doing this. Can you tell that I have in fact given them a try?
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:52 pm

qwaletee wrote:How often do we get to thumbs-up the removal of a feature that a lot of people want?

:D For my part, I was thanking the posting of the information, not the removal itself. I would prefer RR stay visible now.
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby iainhouse » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:55 pm

qwaletee wrote:As I and others have said before as well, they have the distinct disadvantages of
being easily (accidentally!) hidable through URO+ or layers
too easily closed incorrectly (by yourself or anther editor who is not clued in)
no locking
no text until you click
not easily distinguishable from other URs
only work as a point, no way to create shape (arrows, especially double-headed arrows, enclosing shapes, outlines)

Using URs is by no means perfect and there are disadvantages as you say. However at least 2 of them aren't really problems:

"No text until you click" - why not use UR Overview+? It has a host of benefits, including mouseover pop ups with the text.
"Not easily distinguishable" - again URO+. Currently it's detecting the string [ROADWORKS], but could easily extend to detect things like [CONSTRUCTION], [NOTE] etc.

cone UR.jpg
cone UR.jpg (4.28 KiB) Viewed 778 times

As far as I am concerned, there is one, massive advantage to using URs. They are available right now, they work and they don't require any hacks or abuse of other segment types for notes.

We also only use them for brief notes and a link to a forum post with all the details. So if the UR gets closed (which does happen occasionally), it's easy to recreate it. And another advantage of URO+ - the link to the forum post in the pop up box is clickable. So moving your mouse over the UR and one click is all you need to get to the full details. Here's one I prepared earlier.

Yes - I'd like a better editor note system. But I'm not holding my breath. And the response to the accidental appearance of railroads suggests plenty of people would rather they stayed.
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby Timbones » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:58 pm

I like URs because editors can have conversations right there, and get notified of any new responses.

Adding the words DO NOT CLOSE does tend to discourage noobs from closing them.
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby CBenson » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:17 pm

qwaletee wrote:Can we please remind them also that railroads should not be implemented in the client until the note feature has been in the editor for, say, 6-8 weeks?

I think the cats out of the bag on this. They say they'll remove the current display of railroads in the next update hopefully in less than 2 months. I'm not holding my breath. Nor am I leaving railroad notes on the map at this point when I come across them.
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Re: Regarding Railroads

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:55 am

The UR hack is clever, but the key point of the notes on railroads was to communicate to the entry level editors who do not use any of our cool tools in the first place and may not even know about the UR layer.

Plain and simple:

1. We need a solution to guarantee new editors see a note.
2. (IMO) Seeing a railroad on the map is a very MINOR aid to navigation vs. the ability to communicate with a novice editor who is going to screw up the map.

Therefore keep the railroad invisible UNTIL we have a tool to guarantee communication to 100% of the users as an alternative to the current method that uses the Railroad segment.
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