[New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby bummerdude69 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:23 pm

I'd suggest a title change to 'Help for New Editors' or similar. Thinking as a newbie, with the 'softer' title, I'd be more inclined check it out.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby bummerdude69 » Fri May 08, 2015 9:43 pm

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Incorrect_ed ... ew_editors

Should adding House Numbers be included in the Constructive Work section? With link to https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/House_Numbers.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:01 pm

DwarfLord wrote:While I can't speak for others, if the editing community told me that I could not edit effectively, even as a beginner, without extending Waze with third-party scripts, I would wonder if Waze must not be that good. What am I supposed to think, if it appears the editing community regards the base WME as inadequate? I would question the commitment of Waze to the editing community, and that would lead me to question how much commitment I wanted to put into Waze.


I agree, and I continue to wonder this as a Global Champ. The flip side of the same coin, is wondering whether waze really wants us doing the things that the scripts permit us to do. If they wanted us to do theses things the scripts allow, why wouldn't they provide the tools themselves (or at least provide some official endorsement of scripts that they feel advance the objects of waze).

It seems to me that there are at least two factors at work. First, it seems to me that waze wants to be able to essentially say that the map is created by a vast number of users driving around and finding problems and getting them fixed. There of course is a something of a myth here in that much map editing is done without much connection to any driving. But to the extent that waze sees their userbase editing maps based on user's driving experiences then the scripts are just an outgrowth of that user experience with users making the waze map better. If waze doesn't look at the scripts, then they can continue to espouse the master myth of how the maps get created.

Second, there is clearly a resource allocation issue here. Waze either doesn't want to or can't allocate resources to incorporate many of the script functions into WME. There are other pressing development goals. To the extent that the map editing is getting accomplished, they don't need to work on the features that we can already access through community developed tools.

There is some downside to the appearance that waze always appears to be looking the other way as to the actual methods used to adjust the map. But there is upside too, that is why we use the third-party scripts.

On balance I prefer that beginners should be introduced to these realities of the waze editing experience early.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:53 pm

Sure, but the question is how much reading should they have to do? Isn't the question at issue whether the page being designed to point to when responding to incorrect edits should include information regarding the scripts?
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:40 pm

I have some comments on the Walking Trails section. I generally agree with you that walking trails shouldn't be on the map. However, I have a few issues with the section that I would like to raise.

First, I don't think this wiki page is the place to set policy regarding walking trails. It seems to me that if this is our guidance on walking trails it should be placed or repeated in the road types section or other sections that people would look to for specific editing guidance for walking trails.

Second, I worry greatly about giving guidance to delete things on a page that is intended generally to be given to new editors who appear to have not read the rest of the wiki. I would prefer that this guidance be in the form of "refrain from adding walking trails like this" rather than "walking trails like this should be removed."

Third, this is not really how walking trails are handled in my area. The problem seems to be 1) many were on the base map import, 2) there has not really been formal guidance to delete them, 3) there are some advantages to having them on the map and 4) when not on the map its just too easy for any new editor to add them. Thus, many walking trails that would fully meet your criteria for removal are mapped here. It is just easier to have them mapped well than continually delete them as new editors add them.

Fourth, some of the issues with walking trails can be mitigated if the pedestrian boardwalk type is used rather than the walking trail type. (Although, as you are aware, it is not clear that this is intentional on waze's part or that it will remain this way in the future.)
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:28 pm

I agree with your perspective from a technical perspective. The parallel road problems might be slightly overstated, but who outside of Ra'anana really knows. There are some pros regarding walking trails as landmarks, but I don't think they outweigh the cons. It seems to me (based only on inferences from scant information) that the behavior of walking trails is based on the idea that there should be a way to provide for destinations that are not on a driveable street. Thus, walking trails that have associated house numbers or that appear to be servicing a place may well be on the map for a reason.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby ct13 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:25 pm

I am opposed to telling novice editors to use the validator script. I believe that an new editors should be taught to pick out incorrect edits on their own based on their knowledge of their streets rather than a script telling them that something may be wrong. I think of it like learning to multiply or divide before using a calculator. People use a calculator to save time, but they need to know the context and mechanics behind how the calculator is coming up with that answer, so they can understand it.

While the validator report gives a good idea of what is wrong with the segment and goes more in-depth with a link to a wiki page or the forum, I suspect that many people never run the report to see these links. I guess I would be somewhat assuaged if validator didn't highlight in WME for L1s and instead required them to run a report to find errors. However, as a whole I am opposed to novice editors being told to download scripts. I believe we have a solid mentoring group and I think that we should start to use it more(maybe a group class?) rather than offloading our teaching to these scripts.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby dude463 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:20 pm

Dragging up an old topic can I suggest that you emphasize that you shouldn't delete segments? I'd think going around deleting segments would be worse than being unreachable. Maybe the second most. But deleting segments isn't even touched on, yet if you monitor chat and a newb pops up with a request to delete something it's really discouraged. Like a lot.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby dude463 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:28 pm

I have witnessed the routing problems when an editor traced entire drives as one segment over existing segments. The angles were clean and there weren't any extra geometry nodes so I don't believe they were paving. It was a pain in the butt to find them all since the segments that were already there masked them (validator and toolbox certainly came to the rescue). A UR alerted me to the first one.
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Re: [New Page] Responding to incorrect edits

Postby dude463 » Sun May 10, 2015 4:27 pm

@DwarfLord todays WME makes it difficult to place HNs on the wrong side of a divided street if both sides are named properly. At least from what I've seen, they snap to the closest segment, even if the segment isn't connected to the segment that you started the HN dialog with. Don't know when it changed, but it's different than when I started.
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