[Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Moderator: Unholy

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby CBenson » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:04 am

kentsmith9 wrote:The parking lot content agreed that naming the segments entering and exiting the parking lot was a problem unless the actual street was named inside the parking lot.

Sure we agreed naming the segments entering and exiting the parking lot is a problem. But we all know not naming the segments the segments entering and exiting the parking lot is problem as well. Even after that thread, had I come across the Bollinger Crossing example locally, I would have named the road. Its on the green road sign. How am I supposed to determine that that is the name of the shopping center and not the name of the road?
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2355 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:50 am

qwaletee wrote:Kent,

I followed that thread, and what I can say is, there did not seem to be consensus. The last part of the discussion was whether it was a hack to use separate enter/exit lanes that would avoid the main problem of named entrance roads, i.e., that they also get announced at exit time. Certainly, the issues I raised ITT were not explored.

The thread had two parts. The Driveway content was concluded in a Wiki entry. The parking lot content agreed that naming the segments entering and exiting the parking lot was a problem unless the actual street was named inside the parking lot.

Yes there was a discussion of a possible hack, but we have been told repeatedly to ask Waze to fix things that are broken before we change the millions of segments to create a hack (if they do plan on fixing it).

If you are suggesting discussing the hack, then you can certainly do that now. Otherwise without a hack, naming parking lot road into or out of the segment was concluded to be confusing and not recommended. That is why they Wiki says not to name parking lot roads as a default.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1433 times
Been thanked: 1633 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:57 am

Kent,

I followed that thread, and what I can say is, there did not seem to be consensus. The last part of the discussion was whether it was a hack to use separate enter/exit lanes that would avoid the main problem of named entrance roads, i.e., that they also get announced at exit time. Certainly, the issues I raised ITT were not explored.
qwaletee
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 am
Location: NYC Metro - Active throughout NE^2 (Northeast & New England)
Has thanked: 229 times
Been thanked: 1116 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:55 am

CBenson wrote:I would say though that I read the proposed guidance to mean if the PLR is pseudo-officially signed that it should be named.

About 9 months ago had a similar debate with a number of champs on naming parking lot roads. This thread came up with the current guidelines to not name parking lot roads. I believe the only exception we determined was when the actual parking lot had internal road signs with names. Otherwise no names to parking lot roads due to problems and confusion.
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1433 times
Been thanked: 1633 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby CBenson » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:18 pm

It does seem to me all of these not very frequently occurrences are bound to occur in New Jersey.

I would say though that I read the proposed guidance to mean if the PLR is pseudo-officially signed that it should be named.
CBenson
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 10330
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Crownsville, MD, US
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 2355 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:09 pm

I don't agree. There are certainly cases where, as OP mentioned, it is confusing to drivers when turning into PLR. At the very least, add a general exception that naming principles are not meant to create confusion, and if they do, the editor should use judgment, but be aware that there may be other consequences to their decisions.

I know I have personally used this in a few situations:

* PLR that serves multiple businesses but only one is signed at the entrance
* PLR entrance is not clear and destination is not visible from road
* PLR routes through a problematic network of PLRs (perhaps one segment is named for some other reason, or the branching itself may cause confusion)
* PLR is pseudo-officially named and/or signed

These do not occur very frequently, but they do exist.
qwaletee
US Waze Champs
US Waze Champs
 
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 am
Location: NYC Metro - Active throughout NE^2 (Northeast & New England)
Has thanked: 229 times
Been thanked: 1116 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby sketch » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:00 am

I like that naming principles thing, I think it's pretty good. I'd unbold that "and", and there are a couple things I'd reword slightly – I'd make it clear that a primary use for alt names is for signed highway designations, for concurrent routes, numbered highways with local names, or both, for example.
sketch
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5977
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
Has thanked: 1449 times
Been thanked: 2007 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 pm

How about this instead:

If primary sources provide no name at all for a common road segment, its name field should be left blank and marked as "None". Third-party mapping databases shall not be used to supply a road name that cannot be found in primary sources. Under no circumstances shall any road name be made up, even if the made-up name is based on nearby landmarks or destinations.


Less detailed about what constitutes a "primary" source but it can be inferred from the prohibition against using third-party mapping databases.
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 886 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby DwarfLord » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:08 am

kentsmith9 wrote:Seems rather extensive and long when we are just trying to say not to label Parking Lot segments. :)

Sigh, yes.

I've come across some issues lately with inconsistent signage. Watsonville for example has small street signs calling a road Clifford Ave, but we got a UR complaining that it was really Clifford Dr. Turns out Watsonville installed a BGS on Main St calling it Clifford Dr. All the other signs say Clifford Ave and official city releases also call it Clifford Ave. But there's the BGS.

So I was thinking to take care of that too.

I am always thinking when I write guidance of how an argument would be arbitrated. So, I like to write guidance that is thorough. Unfortunately it often ends up cumbersome as well :roll:
DwarfLord
Wiki Master
Wiki Master
 
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:01 pm
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California USA
Has thanked: 886 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:02 am

Seems rather extensive and long when we are just trying to say not to label Parking Lot segments. :)
kentsmith9
Waze Global Champs
Waze Global Champs
 
Posts: 5399
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 pm
Location: SF/SJ Bay Area of Northern California
Has thanked: 1433 times
Been thanked: 1633 times

PreviousNext

Return to Wiki Updates and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users