[Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:39 am

By my reading of the page, the time would be added to all time restricted HOV lanes in addition to reversible roadways. Maybe if both need a fudge factor, they should be different.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:38 pm

I just hadn't been back to look at this page at all in awhile.
With regard to Multi Use lanes the current page states:
The enforcement time should be expanded to start 15 minutes earlier, to account for drivers who experience traffic along their route prior, and prevent them from accidentally being routed onto the HOV lanes after the enforcement period begins.
These lanes will also require a similar restriction set on ALL the exit ramps, also with the enforcement period expanded to begin 15 minutes early.

And with regard to reversible lanes the current page states:
If the hours are adjacent to each other, meaning that there is no buffer time between the two travel direction of the lanes, then we will have to add a buffer time into to Waze for safety. In that case expand the restriction to start 15 minutes earlier so there is at least a 15 minute window when there travel is restricted in both directions between the open periods.

I'm just noting again that I think 15 minutes is too long for this purpose.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:56 pm

I'll repeat:
CBenson wrote:I'm not a fan of changing the start times of the restrictions to account for delays while in route. I think its better for us to be accurate and let the user make the final decision. Further, if we are going to adjust the start times, I think 15 minutes is way too long. If you lose 15 minutes in route waze should already be recalculating your route. If we are going to recommend adjusting the start times, I think the adjustment should be a maximum of 5 minutes.

A five minute adjustment seemed to be considered reasonable.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:04 pm

PesachZ wrote:The lower level of the Manhattan bridge in NY has this situation. It is used inbound to Manhattan from 05:00-15:00, and outbound to Brooklyn 15:00-05:00 on weekdays. And inbound only on weekends.

I'm still having a hard time understanding how that works. I take it there is some kind of brief closure in both directions (from the perspective of entering the lanes) to make the switch, but the authorities don't commit to a precise time frame that could be relied upon for use by waze.

PesachZ wrote:I can agree with 5 minutes if we can rely on the server to update often enough to account for delays. I believe it is more important in the case of reversible lanes so we don't accidentally send someone the wrong way down a freeway.

Makes sense to me. I agree that not routing a few people within a few minutes of reversible lanes opening is much preferable to routing anyone on reversible lanes while they remain closed.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:45 pm

PesachZ wrote:I've implemented these changes in the wiki on the Carpool, HOV, Transit lanes, and to the Best map editing practice - Handling restricted lanes section.

Couple of minor things I noted when I read it. One in the first message box I originally read "Although this method is now preferred" to refer to the old method as that was referred to in the prior sentence. Maybe "Although the method described below is now preferred" would avoid some confusion. Second do we need the comma in the first point in the final section - "The driver would need to tell the Waze client app how many passengers are present in the car , or what vehicle type they are in for that trip." Is so we should remove the preceding space.

Couple of substantive issues that I would like to raise.
First, is this a really situation that occurs anywhere:
If the hours are adjacent to each other, meaning that there is no buffer time between the two travel direction of the lanes, then we will have to add a buffer time into to Waze for safety. In that case expand the restriction to start 15 minutes earlier so there is at least a 15 minute window when there travel is restricted in both directions between the open periods.
I don't know how that would be done. If its not a circumstance that anyone has encountered, I wouldn't include guidance for it.

Second, I'm not a fan of changing the start times of the restrictions to account for delays while in route. I think its better for us to be accurate and let the user make the final decision. Further, if we are going to adjust the start times, I think 15 minutes is way too long. If you lose 15 minutes in route waze should already be recalculating your route. If we are going to recommend adjusting the start times, I think the adjustment should be a maximum of 5 minutes.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:30 pm

Yes, waze will just pic the path with the fastest traffic speed if on the HOV lane after 4:00. However, when routing before 4:00 waze will pick the exit that can be routed through before 4:00 with the fastest traffic speed.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:57 pm

PesachZ wrote:
CBenson wrote:...

I'm also for putting the restrictions on the exits.


Do you mean you support it for all HOV lanes, or just for the ones with specific timed restrictions, which are open to the public during other times?


I support it for specific timed restrictions. For lanes that are HOV all the time, I'm ambivalent as I don't see that they would have any effect.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:55 pm

qwaletee wrote:Any restricted segments will be done by using partial restrictions - vehicle types, by ticking all vehicle types except the two HOV entries. This has the effect of banning "private cars" from routing there, and all routes are considered private cars today, so this replaces the historical use of PLR for such purposes.

Broadly I agree, but going forward the devil is in the details.

If the restriction is HOV-2 then both the HOV-2 and HOV-3 are left unchecked. If the restriction is HOV-3 then HOV-2 needs to be checked as well.

Motorcycles are permitted to use the HOV lanes around here, but that may not be universal. But around DC (i.e. in Maryland and Virginia) the motorcycle box should be left unchecked as well.

I'm never quite sure whether taxis or buses are intended for riders or drivers (or maybe both). It will be interesting to see whether the client allows multiple choices or whether you can only be a taxi or HOV-2.

qwaletee wrote:For reversible lanes, we will also use time restrictions. (Suggestion: in this case, we should also set the time-only restrictions on the HOV segments, with no vehicle type restrictions.)

I'm not sure I understand the suggestion. Do you mean set the HOV/time restrictions on the entrances and the repeat the time restrictions but not the HOV restrictions on the reversible lanes?

I'm also for putting the restrictions on the exits.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:57 pm

Not sure why we would need to remove anything. The hack at this point is really removing the restrictions from the main HOV lanes, rather than adding them to the exits.

Currently, we don't label all of the segments HOV restricted because if you are HOV compliant and take the HOV lanes, waze will immediately re-route you off of them through the route with the fewest HOV restricted segments. Marking just the entrances (and exits) solves this problem. But this is only a problem while we can't indicate HOV status in the client. With the entrances and exits marked with the correct times, nothing would need to be removed (or changed) to have HOV routing work. When we can indicate HOV status in the client we could then add the restrictions to main HOV lanes as well.
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Re: [Update] Partial restrictions (time and vehicle type)

Postby CBenson » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:26 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:What if we could make a guess-timate about how long it should take to travel all the way through in the HOV lanes, and set back the beginning of the restriction time by that amount? For example, if HOV enforcement was to start at 4pm and we figure it takes about 20 minutes to go all the way thru from beginning to end of the HOV roadway, we could set the TBR to start at 3:30pm. Then we would not need to hack any exit or continuing segments of the HOV roadway.

The whole issue here is that there are multiple exits. So if you get on at 3:30 you can go all the way, but if you get on at 3:15 you can only go half way and then need to exit. Marking the exits as restricted lets waze route using the multiple exits. I don't see why changing the entry time is less of a hack than putting in an exit restriction.
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