[Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby DwarfLord » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:42 am

OK, I've put up a draft of the road naming principles transcludable page, and started a new forum thread regarding it here.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:42 am

sketch wrote:I can't believe the wiki doesn't already say not to name PLRs. Now that TTS / nav instruction display handles them properly (AT LAST), there's even less reason to name them.

Turns out it is buried in one of the original pages on mapping,
Wiki... wrote:...For streets with no name, such as private roads or parking lot roads, use the "No Name" check box...

We need to address this for:
  • Parking Lot Roads
  • Driveways
  • Roundabouts
  • At Grade Connectors (that are not ramps)
  • And some non-ramp segments that will pick up the next segment name as is done with wayfinders
Pages that need to get some linkage on these no-name segments:
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:02 am

Seems rather extensive and long when we are just trying to say not to label Parking Lot segments. :)
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:55 am

CBenson wrote:I would say though that I read the proposed guidance to mean if the PLR is pseudo-officially signed that it should be named.

About 9 months ago had a similar debate with a number of champs on naming parking lot roads. This thread came up with the current guidelines to not name parking lot roads. I believe the only exception we determined was when the actual parking lot had internal road signs with names. Otherwise no names to parking lot roads due to problems and confusion.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:50 am

qwaletee wrote:Kent,

I followed that thread, and what I can say is, there did not seem to be consensus. The last part of the discussion was whether it was a hack to use separate enter/exit lanes that would avoid the main problem of named entrance roads, i.e., that they also get announced at exit time. Certainly, the issues I raised ITT were not explored.

The thread had two parts. The Driveway content was concluded in a Wiki entry. The parking lot content agreed that naming the segments entering and exiting the parking lot was a problem unless the actual street was named inside the parking lot.

Yes there was a discussion of a possible hack, but we have been told repeatedly to ask Waze to fix things that are broken before we change the millions of segments to create a hack (if they do plan on fixing it).

If you are suggesting discussing the hack, then you can certainly do that now. Otherwise without a hack, naming parking lot road into or out of the segment was concluded to be confusing and not recommended. That is why they Wiki says not to name parking lot roads as a default.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:12 pm

DwarfLord wrote:I'd like to get the "naming principles" section into the wiki, and I too think a reference to it would be useful in all these places. But I'm unclear on (1) where the "master" should be and which others should be references, and (2) of the references, which should be links and which transclusions.

At first glance the "master" might belong in Road names/USA. However the concept of not making up names for roads seems broader than just the US. Should the naming principles be placed "higher" in the wiki tree, or...?

I agree the "no name" guidelines are likely universal to all countries, so should be higher, but if we currently have no universal place, then we should at least start at the USA.

One idea is to include it where we discuss the check box itself in the WME page. Then also include it in the USA section on road naming.

We can create a transcludable subpage with the text, but I think it will be basic enough and not likely to change, so we can just hard code it in the pages that require it.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:08 pm

[[Keyboard shortcuts]] is both a primary page viewed directly and a transcluded page into other pages. You can use {{:Keyboard shortcuts}} to get the content of that page into another page.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby Kobes1878 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:24 am

Was a page ever created to cover the guidelines? Looking for something we can point editors to.

The original page as Kent mentioned seems outdated (it has end nodes guidance)...
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:09 pm

I don't agree. There are certainly cases where, as OP mentioned, it is confusing to drivers when turning into PLR. At the very least, add a general exception that naming principles are not meant to create confusion, and if they do, the editor should use judgment, but be aware that there may be other consequences to their decisions.

I know I have personally used this in a few situations:

* PLR that serves multiple businesses but only one is signed at the entrance
* PLR entrance is not clear and destination is not visible from road
* PLR routes through a problematic network of PLRs (perhaps one segment is named for some other reason, or the branching itself may cause confusion)
* PLR is pseudo-officially named and/or signed

These do not occur very frequently, but they do exist.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:57 am

Kent,

I followed that thread, and what I can say is, there did not seem to be consensus. The last part of the discussion was whether it was a hack to use separate enter/exit lanes that would avoid the main problem of named entrance roads, i.e., that they also get announced at exit time. Certainly, the issues I raised ITT were not explored.
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