Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby coontex » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:47 pm

Helgramite wrote:
orbitc wrote:
Taco909 wrote:They need the exposure and ability to work them, limited as their abilities may be.
They also need the exposure to how higher level editors are handling them WRT canned messages, back and forth, ultimate resolution, etc...

In addition to that, we have formal mentoring program where we help editors editing, solving URs and other map and community topic. Not to mention the accelerated promotions.


I have certainly benefited from both informal and formal mentoring, and I understand your points, but do not feel that they come into play ... yet.

Unless I have a talented friend that I personally introduce to map editing, are we really looking at anyone below the old L3 threshold (aka ~10K edits) for either formal mentoring or accelerated promotion?

My very brief exposure as an AM has my daily routine consumed with tracking down an ever changing list of L1 bad actors peppering the map with speed cameras, places/landmarks, PLR confabulations, and either snarky UR comments or outright closing URs with no investigation or comms.

My challenge this week is an editor was improperly closing URs two weeks ago as an L1, before he discovered Chrome Extensions and is now an L3 with more access but no greater self-control.

Every minute spent trying to coral a new L1 on a points expedition directly reduces any engagement with those actually doing their homework, engaging with the local community, and editing in moderation.

So ... agree that we need to continually generate new editors, and that I need to improve my "social" engagement with those who haven't read or understand the wiki, etc.

Good thing that I am code-limited, or in a fit of frustration could create a tool to "select all ... set lock to 4" and eliminate that problem.

With Waze inundating folks with "Edit the Map" suggestions (links in the client, LiveMap, and every UR email) the need for an updated privileges list might be ripe.

Eliminate vanity points for Closing URs ... Require successful completion of Practice Mode before receiving live access ... Restrict L1 and L2 editing privileges ... Require AM mentoring and approval before upgrade to L2 and L3 ...

So, apologies for the Monday morning expurgation.

I appreciate what the Champs and Experts do on a daily basis to improve Waze, and especially to guide and mentor ME.

JP


I am a level 3 am myself and try to do more on UR's in my area then edit. I have been editing since January and have 38000 edits but have a lot of UR's with conversations. In the houston area it is hard to keep up and it does not help when outer people close UR's that you are trying to work on. I also try to work with new editors also to help them to the best of my ability. I feel your pain also.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby qwaletee » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:53 pm

And thus was Waze converted wholesale to Google Map Maker.

GMM goes to far toward the closed system of editing and approvals. Waze goes to far toward openness. There is no way to make everything perfect. I believe Waze is still concentrating on features visible to the client, so we're probably not going to see too much change in this arena.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:22 pm

Helgramite wrote:My very brief exposure as an AM has my daily routine consumed with tracking down an ever changing list of L1 bad actors peppering the map with speed cameras, places/landmarks, PLR confabulations, and either snarky UR comments or outright closing URs with no investigation or comms.

My challenge this week is an editor was improperly closing URs two weeks ago as an L1, before he discovered Chrome Extensions and is now an L3 with more access but no greater self-control.

I certainly hear you on the "bad actors" though our peppering of cameras is typically the same people who pave roads but have no clue that the editor exists... often "usa_xxxx" members.

But more importantly, how did someone move from L1 to L3 in 2 weeks? L3 and above require manual review and promotion and is not automatic. I'd shoot a note to your RC or CM if this editor is causing problems.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:42 am

Okay....

After fighting this issue (among others, including unconfirmed roads and populated parking lots) with L1s for the last month, I'm even more in favor of... first... GET RID OF THE FREAKING "50 MAP PROBLEM" CANDY, and in restricting L1 so that when they believe they are ready to close a UR, it is a "soft closure" and requires confirmation by a 3+
I even see this from time to time with L2 editors (the L1s get there quickly with their PLR additions)

Had a HUGE area of SoCal peppered in the last 24 hours with dozens of URs closed without comment by one user.
Sent a PM, he swore up and down that he commented but forgot to send it when he closed them.
He closed a number as "solved" on roads that were not editable to him.
He claims he was following the instructions of an L5 in removing reports more than 7 days old... yet I found one he closed in 4 days.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby qwaletee » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Take it easy, Taco. It isn't world-ending. If we clamped down hard and required editors to have a real learning curve before they could affect ANYTHINg well, then Waze might as well be owne... wait. Never mind.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby HavanaDay » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Taco909 wrote:
Had a HUGE area of SoCal peppered in the last 24 hours with dozens of URs closed without comment by one user.
Sent a PM, he swore up and down that he commented but forgot to send it when he closed them.
He closed a number as "solved" on roads that were not editable to him.
He claims he was following the instructions of an L5 in removing reports more than 7 days old... yet I found one he closed in 4 days.


These types issues should be addressed with your SM (if there is one) and/or your RC.

Edited:

If you feel that you didn't get an adequate response from the original editor.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:27 pm

HavanaDay wrote:These types issues should be addressed with your SM (if there is one) and/or your RC.

They are being handled, but the problem is that once the L1 closes the report, the damage is done and permanent unless editors are given the ability to reopen the report. That's why I feel that we need to modify the routines so that the closure does not go live until it has been reviewed and approved... same as with RLC reports.

The report disappears from the map after a week or so
The reporter can no longer respond from the app
The reporter received an email that their issue was solved or could not be resolved... that's going to be maddening to them when the issue repeats the next time they make that drive.

Waze needs to remove the rewards for closing reports and map edits pure and simple. They jump into the editor wanting the "candy" and they do it without ever reading the Wiki and sometimes even logging into the forum, and they are creating some serious issues.

This is a constant and ongoing problem in large markets like Los Angeles, and there is a LOT of valuable data out there in our blanket of red reports that can be determined by examining the clusters even if the reporters don't provide details and are unresponsive.

The secondary issue is that I can only feed so many of these issues to my AM and CM... They have a lot on their plate and all of it takes time.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby undearius » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:27 pm

We should somehow get all the L1s that are doing it for the candy to close the General Error URs opened by the people doing it for the candy.
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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby coontex » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:33 pm

Undearius wrote:We should somehow get all the L1s that are doing it for the candy to close the General Error URs opened by the people doing it for the candy.


Not a good way to do that but it is a good idea. Wish we could tell but even level 1s need to learn. I do agree that there needs to be a way that a level 1 editor had to have the UR's approved before closing them.

I'll admit that I did a few in the first couple of days of editing then I found the wiki after looking at some of the other hundreds of UR's in the houston area at the time. Now a days we can't keep up with them .


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Re: Should closing URs be limited to Rank 2+?

Postby taco909 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:39 pm

mdavidsonjr wrote:I'll admit that I did a few in the first couple of days of editing then I found the wiki after looking at some of the other hundreds of UR's in the houston area at the time. Now a days we can't keep up with them .

Of course, we all did... but when called on it, we stopped or figured it out on our own. We responded to PMs without being snarky, we stopped closing URs without comments, we stopped creating red roads, we stopped fully populating parking lots, etc...

One of the most creative excuses for leaving red roads I've seen was from an L1 who put 2 and 2 together on the red roads and came up with "5"... The road is a different color on the map + The error in the top corner says "Unconfirmed" = "That is a flag for a higher level editor to review and approve the edit" :lol:
Okay, yes, it does tend to draw our attention, but not for the reason you think ;)
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