[Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:24 pm

qwaletee wrote:Side note: There are no stats on the number of people who have upgraded and the number who have not. Anecdotally, a lot of people are complaining about the update, and I know a bunch of people IRL who have not updated from 3.7.x. It is also well known in the app world that there is a fairly long update cycle before you can retire support for older versions.

Not so – I'm not sure where exactly, or to what extent, this information was made available, so I can't point you to it, but 3.8 had a significantly faster take rate than 3.7.8 did when it was first released.

Certainly, it's not wise to remove support for old versions immediately after the release of a new version. But that doesn't mean we should be creating new rules to make old versions work better, at the expense of the new version's handling of the map. Especially because we've had this rule for years now, so users who are on/still on the old versions will be used to that behavior, and new users will never have to experience it.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby sketch » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:35 pm

Named PLRs also creates a search problem. Naming a PLR "Chevron" means you get two results for the same Chevron, one for the road and one for the area place.

Any post I made in the previous discussion in support of naming PLRs (because I used to at large shopping centers etc.) is moot since 3.8.0 when Waze fixed unnamed-road TTS instructions.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby sketch » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:00 am

I like that naming principles thing, I think it's pretty good. I'd unbold that "and", and there are a couple things I'd reword slightly – I'd make it clear that a primary use for alt names is for signed highway designations, for concurrent routes, numbered highways with local names, or both, for example.
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[Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby sketch » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:31 am

I can't believe the wiki doesn't already say not to name PLRs. Now that TTS / nav instruction display handles them properly (AT LAST), there's even less reason to name them.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:11 pm

Side note: There are no stats on the number of people who have upgraded and the number who have not. Anecdotally, a lot of people are complaining about the update, and I know a bunch of people IRL who have not updated from 3.7.x. It is also well known in the app world that there is a fairly long update cycle before you can retire support for older versions.

Given that, 3.8.0 may very well not fix anything for a large segment of the Waze driver base.

Now, back to the nain topic at hand... this doesn't solve for the other use cases I mentioned.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:57 am

Kent,

I followed that thread, and what I can say is, there did not seem to be consensus. The last part of the discussion was whether it was a hack to use separate enter/exit lanes that would avoid the main problem of named entrance roads, i.e., that they also get announced at exit time. Certainly, the issues I raised ITT were not explored.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby qwaletee » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:09 pm

I don't agree. There are certainly cases where, as OP mentioned, it is confusing to drivers when turning into PLR. At the very least, add a general exception that naming principles are not meant to create confusion, and if they do, the editor should use judgment, but be aware that there may be other consequences to their decisions.

I know I have personally used this in a few situations:

* PLR that serves multiple businesses but only one is signed at the entrance
* PLR entrance is not clear and destination is not visible from road
* PLR routes through a problematic network of PLRs (perhaps one segment is named for some other reason, or the branching itself may cause confusion)
* PLR is pseudo-officially named and/or signed

These do not occur very frequently, but they do exist.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby Kobes1878 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:24 am

Was a page ever created to cover the guidelines? Looking for something we can point editors to.

The original page as Kent mentioned seems outdated (it has end nodes guidance)...
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:08 pm

[[Keyboard shortcuts]] is both a primary page viewed directly and a transcluded page into other pages. You can use {{:Keyboard shortcuts}} to get the content of that page into another page.
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Re: [Update] Road Name/USA - PLot Roads?

Postby kentsmith9 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:12 pm

DwarfLord wrote:I'd like to get the "naming principles" section into the wiki, and I too think a reference to it would be useful in all these places. But I'm unclear on (1) where the "master" should be and which others should be references, and (2) of the references, which should be links and which transclusions.

At first glance the "master" might belong in Road names/USA. However the concept of not making up names for roads seems broader than just the US. Should the naming principles be placed "higher" in the wiki tree, or...?

I agree the "no name" guidelines are likely universal to all countries, so should be higher, but if we currently have no universal place, then we should at least start at the USA.

One idea is to include it where we discuss the check box itself in the WME page. Then also include it in the USA section on road naming.

We can create a transcludable subpage with the text, but I think it will be basic enough and not likely to change, so we can just hard code it in the pages that require it.
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