[Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.2.1 2017-08-16

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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:52 pm

request of Waze staff


A source citation would be appreciated. I've not seen this request in my travels.

I've been disabling these u-turns manually, then with the use of JNF (clicking on the endnode, then hitting 'q'), then finally with the use of Toolbox. Unless you actually selected the end node, JNF did nothing to them, in my experience -- which sounds to be a change in behaviour now.

I'm sorry... but your "because I said so" doesn't hold much water -- unless you can reference some thread that has extensive testing and/or a semi-public (e.g. GC forum) or public request from staff, I'm sticking to my guns.
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby bgodette » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:47 pm

doctorkb wrote:As a third option, you could just remove the functionality, as it's clearly a problem with some locales (not sure the UK's issue, but may be different)... and as you mention "simply wait until dead-end end nodes are removed from the model and are treated as always enabled by routing".
Since this change is specifically by request of Waze staff I think it's up to you to come up with a convincing argument against which is something other than "but that's what we've always done because old JNF did it that way before I even knew there was an issue with dead ends."

Long ago before JNF was public it used to enable dead-end u-turns simply because you logically must be able to. After some time this revealed a problem with routing and a resulting change in policy because of the bad routing. That change also caused a different routing failure that we *still* have, but was agreed was acceptable given the alternative. With the original issue now resolved the current policy, which was the original policy, is back and works for *both* routing edge cases.

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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:27 pm

Of course, a reference to the "Waze claims it isn't and testing confirms that it isn't" may also be suitable to have us revise our practice and documentation...

Until then, this new version of JNF is not approved for use in Canada, as it is not in agreement with our local documentation. The previous version still works fine and is approved for use.
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:00 pm

As a third option, you could just remove the functionality, as it's clearly a problem with some locales (not sure the UK's issue, but may be different)... and as you mention "simply wait until dead-end end nodes are removed from the model and are treated as always enabled by routing".
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby bgodette » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:57 pm

That'd be great and all IF it were still a problem, which Waze claims it isn't and testing confirms that it isn't. The wiki is now out of date with reality and needs to be updated. This in regards to dead-ends only and the selfcon on the end node.

Alternatively you can ignore that it does this and simply wait until dead-end end nodes are removed from the model and are treated as always enabled by routing.

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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:19 pm

*shrug* - our standard has been to disable all u-turns, since none of them were enabled correctly to start with.

Having a tool that automatically "fixes" these against the published standard (yes, our wiki page says: "restrict all u-turns in Canada unless there is a sign outright permitting them") is not cool.
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby CBenson » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:16 pm

But that's the same situation as the US.
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:45 pm

We've had really bad experiences with routing -- basically, when Waze wants to have a user turn around, with these dead-end segments having u-turns enabled, the user would be directed to turn down the street, turn around at the end, then go back the way they came.

Until Waze will respect a u-turn at any intersection (i.e. not just dead ends), it causes user complaints to have any of them turned on.
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby Olestas » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:30 pm

Can someone pkease explain why are you asking to disable uturns? What are the issues? And why these issues happen only in UK or Canada?
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Re: [Script] WME Junction Node Fixer v0.0.9.0 2014-08-18

Postby doctorkb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:44 pm

Timbones wrote:Could you make it DISable dead-end U-turns in the UK? We have asked Waze to disable all of them for us. Thanks.


And if we're going to get on this -- Canada, too?
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